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Why You Can Trust the Bible

 
 
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 06:16 pm
Why You Can Trust the Bible - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
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Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 06:28 pm
@Brian764,
Brian@764;42408 wrote:

Does It Contradict Itself?

While some may claim the Bible contradicts itself, has anyone ever shown you an actual example? We have never seen one that could withstand scrutiny.


well then please allow me to do something ground breaking

Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)

Should we steal?
Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)

Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)

Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)

here's a good one

When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

not that I'm really much on bushing the bible, but to make that claim is just ignorant. The Bible isn't a book, it's a library. A collection of books, written by different people. Many of whom never even met. The variance within it is comparable to any other collection of stories written and assembled in a similar manner
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 07:00 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;42410 wrote:
well then please allow me to do something ground breaking

Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)

Should we steal?
Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)

Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)

Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)

here's a good one

When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

not that I'm really much on bushing the bible, but to make that claim is just ignorant. The Bible isn't a book, it's a library. A collection of books, written by different people. Many of whom never even met. The variance within it is comparable to any other collection of stories written and assembled in a similar manner


And for what purpose? If I were to prove to you that these scriptures do not conflict with each other as you might believe, would you have a change of mind and desire to repent of your sinful ways and take up your burden and follow Jesus? Or are you just trying to trip me?
mommamia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 07:26 pm
@Brian764,
Brian I have a feeling it doesn't matter what anyone says, you are going to believe what the guy at the church tells you. That is OK, but what I can't understand is why you feel the need to continue to try to impress your way on those of us who have already explored and made our descion on it. I studied, and sometimes still study the bible, I just get an entirely different message than you. I find it very vain and presumptous on your part to think that your way, and only your way is the right way.

You are not here to debate, you are not here to learn, you are here to preach.

There is more than one book that was inspired by those who had a very personal relationship with the Spirit. Why don't you just focus on developing your own relationship (and POV, you do alot of cut and paste) and give the rest of us a break from your damn idea of perfection?
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 07:46 pm
@mommamia,
mommamia;42425 wrote:
Brian I have a feeling it doesn't matter what anyone says, you are going to believe what the guy at the church tells you.


Please tell me how do you know that what I believe is what the guys at the Church tells me?

mommamia;42425 wrote:
That is OK, but what I can't understand is why you feel the need to continue to try to impress your way on those of us who have already explored and made our descion on it. I studied, and sometimes still study the bible, I just get an entirely different message than you. I find it very vain and presumptous on your part to think that your way, and only your way is the right way.


Arn't you being the one that is being presumptous? Don't you believe that you are the one who is right?

mommamia;42425 wrote:
You are not here to debate, you are not here to learn, you are here to preach.

There is more than one book that was inspired by those who had a very personal relationship with the Spirit. Why don't you just focus on developing your own relationship (and POV, you do alot of cut and paste) and give the rest of us a break from your damn idea of perfection?


Hmmm... I sense that there is more to your resentment that what meets the eye. You know when there is something that is wrong, I simply avoid it....I don't watch/read it then complane about how bad it is. If you find what I post so offensive then stop reading it. And more importantly don't respond to it....after all you're not the only one on this board. There may be some who appreciate what I post.
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 07:48 pm
@Brian764,


There is another interesting thread somewhere on this debate forum about Science & the Koran.

Reading this piece about the Bible vindicates my view that there is little difference between the two and fewer differences between each's proponents.

Both Biblical and claims made in the Koran can be refuted. Until recently I was of the view "to each his own". But now, giving the clamity being visited on the world by the followers of these two books, I have come to the belief that they MUST be refuted. Politely & with facts.

So I'll go through your posted article after my morning espresso and respond.
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:02 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;42434 wrote:
There is another interesting thread somewhere on this debate forum about Science & the Koran.

Reading this piece about the Bible vindicates my view that there is little difference between the two and fewer differences between each's proponents.

Both Biblical and claims made in the Koran can be refuted. Until recently I was of the view "to each his own". But now, giving the clamity being visited on the world by the followers of these two books, I have come to the belief that they MUST be refuted. Politely & with facts.

So I'll go through your posted article after my morning espresso and respond.


Well I have never nor do I personally know anyone who is a Christian that supports any form of violence by those who called themselves Christian. In fact, any form of violence against another person is wrong and does not reflect the love of Jesus. A fair minded person would get the facts before coming to a conclusion.
mommamia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:16 pm
@Brian764,
No, I do not believe my thoughts are the only right ones, only that they are right for me. I enjoy debating and sometimes learning from folks of all religions. I would enjoy a debate, but you always answer my questions with, the bible says so, and I have yet to hear you support your beliefs with reasons. Silverchild gave a list of verses that seem to contridict themselves. If you can explain to me how they don't, I would be willing to listen with an open mind, but you have to explain, not just say "they don't"

I am glad you don't know know any christians who support any form of violence by those who call themselves christians. You must know a very different breed than I do. I know some who would never condone violence of any kind, and those who are some of the most violent people I have ever met. I have met christians who would help a fellow human being regardless, and muslims, and buddists and hindu's that would do the same. I have also met christians who casually spoke of killing those of differing races and political views as if they were discussing how to get rid of an insect, and muslim's and hindu's and jews who will spout the same thing.

No race or religion holds the exclusive use of love or hate.
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:18 pm
@Brian764,
Yeah.....I trust that dang old thang, but I don't interpret it literally. I'm CATHOLIC, and I live in TEXAS. Yeah. You betchya.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:22 pm
@Brian764,
Brian@764;42440 wrote:
Well I have never nor do I personally know anyone who is a Christian that supports any form of violence by those who called themselves Christian. In fact, any form of violence against another person is wrong and does not reflect the love of Jesus. A fair minded person would get the facts before coming to a conclusion.


The Bible is a horrifically violent document. Both the Old and the New, albeit the Old winning the prize hands down on who is bloodier.

The Jewish people, witches, South American Indian societies and various victims of conversion tactics the world over would beg to differ on the peaceful nature of Christianity.

Christianity is more peaceful now, not because of the Bible and its teaching - the Spanish Inquisition proved beyond doubt where those teachings lead - but due to the influence of secular thinking on the Western world. This is an important point we usually miss.

The punishment for taking the Lord's name in vain, for example, is death (Leviticus 24:16).

The reason modern western socities choose not to follow this Bibilical requirement is common sense and a civil code of conduct which have nothing to do with the Bible. These are secular achievements of the homo sapien and the reason I can say "for chrissake" and not get stoned to death.

It is also the reason I can choose to work on Sabbath and not worry about being killed because that is what the Bible requires (Exodus 21:17).

We are a peaceful society today because of Diests like Spinoza who took the early steps to move western society away from adherence to a document frozen in time. In our own country we owe our way of life not to the Bible but to giants like Jefferson who gave us this secular Republic. Else we'd still be little better than the islamic world who unfortunately have not had a reformation like the West did.

Islam today, is almost identical to Chrisianity before Europe had a renessance. So, our peaceful society has more to do with that secular reformation than the Bible.

When you play golf on Sunday, thank the athiests for fighting to give you that luxury that the Bible would've otherwise curtailed.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:28 pm
@Brian764,
Brian@764;42440 wrote:
Well I have never nor do I personally know anyone who is a Christian that supports any form of violence by those who called themselves Christian. In fact, any form of violence against another person is wrong and does not reflect the love of Jesus. A fair minded person would get the facts before coming to a conclusion.


Sorry many soldiers believe and after taking the oath have to follow orders. My self I still believe I didn't kill enough NVA in the Nam, as more of my brothers died after I went home. Maybe that is why Jesus, said don't take an oath. But my lifer dad decided for me and being raised around the Army I felt he was right that I do my duty to my country just like todays soldiers for the most part. My first kill later that night I cried as he was a teen if not younger. He had pictures in his helmet o fhis family. Man i tore a family apart. Yet I had to.
But he had an AK-47 pointed at me and it jammed so I got the first shot off and at only 10 paces. I still see his eyes. But I also think if I just killed several more there would have been a few less names on the wall.
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:33 pm
@mommamia,
mommamia;42447 wrote:
No, I do not believe my thoughts are the only right ones, only that they are right for me.




So then as far as you are concern there is no such thing as absolute truth. To you truth is subjective. If that is what you believe I say that is false. God is not the author of confusion, which that kind of belief is.
0 Replies
 
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:34 pm
@mlurp,
And back to the thread, I believe in the Christian Bible, but don't preach it to others unless asked or to debate a little bit.

And can I ask where is wvpeach?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:34 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;42453 wrote:
Sorry many soldiers believe and after taking the oath have to follow orders. My self I still beieve I didn't kill enough NVA in the Nam, as more of my brothers died after I went home. Maybe that is why Jesus, said don't take an oath. But my lifer dad decided for me and being raised around the Army I felt he was right that I do my duty to my country just like todays soldiers for the most part. My first kill later that night I cried as he was a teen if not younger.
But he had an AK-47 pointed at me and it jammed so I got the first shot off and at only 10 paces. I still see his eyes. But I also think if I just killed several more there would have been a few less names on the wall.


I hugely disagreed with our being in Vietnam. But I also have a huge reservoir of respect, affection and awe for the soldiers who went there to fight. You were the men. Not Dick Cheney, not that weasel in the White House. You sir, were the heroes.
0 Replies
 
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 08:40 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;42451 wrote:
The Bible is a horrifically violent document. Both the Old and the New, albeit the Old winning the prize hands down on who is bloodier.


It would require me to write an article explaining to you both the Old and New Testament, and what its about. You have just gave me a thought...I don't know if or when I will do an article about that, but I will think about it.
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:00 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;42455 wrote:
And back to the thread, I believe in the Christian Bible, but don't preach it to others unless asked or to debate a little bit.

And can I ask where is wvpeach?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:00 pm
@Brian764,
Brian@764;42458 wrote:
It would require me to write an article explaining to you both the Old and New Testament, and what its about. You have just gave me a thought...I don't know if or when I will do an article about that, but I will think about it.


You MUST do the article my friend. It would hugely benefit this debate.
0 Replies
 
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:06 pm
@mlurp,
mlurp;42453 wrote:
Sorry many soldiers believe and after taking the oath have to follow orders. My self I still believe I didn't kill enough NVA in the Nam, as more of my brothers died after I went home. Maybe that is why Jesus, said don't take an oath. But my lifer dad decided for me and being raised around the Army I felt he was right that I do my duty to my country just like todays soldiers for the most part. My first kill later that night I cried as he was a teen if not younger. He had pictures in his helmet o fhis family. Man i tore a family apart. Yet I had to.
But he had an AK-47 pointed at me and it jammed so I got the first shot off and at only 10 paces. I still see his eyes. But I also think if I just killed several more there would have been a few less names on the wall.


Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters, because you will obey one and dsiobey that other. The question is who is your master?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:07 pm
@Brian764,
Brian@764;42460 wrote:


The only question being, did the people at the receiving end accept it as good news...

Alot of us consider proseltysing as an evil. Its fine if it ends with a polite request and a "turn around & walk away" if the other person is not interested. It becomes appalling when the bearer of good tidings,
- forces his "good news" down throats.
- insists that these who do not accept it be tortured until they submit.
- bribes people to accept the "good news".
- destroys whole civilizations & indigenous cultures in attempting to spread the "good news".

I canlist out details on such crimes committed by both Christianity and Islam. The whole story requires parental supervision while reading/viewing.
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:09 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;42449 wrote:
Yeah.....I trust that dang old thang, but I don't interpret it literally. I'm CATHOLIC, and I live in TEXAS. Yeah. You betchya.


Could you explane?
 

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