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Evolution Vs. Intelligent Design

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One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:28 am
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;21795 wrote:
Plenty of things exist even when there is a contradiction. Back to square one?


...

So you admit there's a contradiction?

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Determined yet by you. Why do you assume because you have yet to determine such a thing he has not?


Because he doesn't exist. Frame the question a little more skillfully next time.

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Because you don't know you don't think he can know, that's pretty persumptious.


...

No, it's logic. If he does know there is no free will. You're not getting the point, are ya?

Quote:
Clan Man - so far, we all know what you do not like. Is there any activity that you actually enjoy..?


Why?
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:35 am
@One Man Clan,
One Man Clan;21807 wrote:
...

So you admit there's a contradiction?



Because he doesn't exist. Frame the question a little more skillfully next time.



...

No, it's logic. If he does know there is no free will. You're not getting the point, are ya?



Why?

Quote:
So you admit there's a contradiction?
No, but you could expand on what contratiction you think there is?
Quote:
Because he doesn't exist. Frame the question a little more skillfully next time.
What proof do you have he doesn't exist? I would like proof not opinion.
Quote:
No, it's logic. If he does know there is no free will. You're not getting the point, are ya?
Why should i get it when you can't prove it? So tell me, if someone predicted that something ill would befall you. At that point if there preticition proved true would you lose your freewill at that point?
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:35 am
@imuthis,
Gotta run, catch up with ya later.
0 Replies
 
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:38 am
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;21816 wrote:
No, but you could expand on what contratiction you think there is?


If God knows what I'm going to do before I'm even born it's been determined.

Quote:
What proof do you have he doesn't exist?


I've already told you that. He can't exist in a universe of free will.

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I would like proof not opinion.Why should i get it when you can't prove it?


I'd rather ask you, what proof do you have that he DOES exist?

Quote:
So tell me, if someone predicted that something ill would befall you. At that point if there preticition proved true would you lose your freewill at that point?


No, there's a difference between an action befalling me and me committing an action.

If someone knows beforehand that I'm going to kill my sister, I'm invariably going to do that. I have no free will.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:39 am
@imuthis,
hey check it out

you can't prove either, they are both theories

both are probably wrong, although I would suggest we continually get closer to the truth, like traveling through a cone. The farther you go the more that gets eliminated until finally you're left with one thing. We are still in the discovery phase, we won't be done until we finish the elimination phase.
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:41 am
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;21819 wrote:
hey check it out

you can't prove either, they are both theories

both are probably wrong, although I would suggest we continually get closer to the truth, like traveling through a cone. The farther you go the more that gets eliminated until finally you're left with one thing. We are still in the discovery phase, we won't be done until we finish the elimination phase.


It's not theory, it's truth.

If God invariably knows what I'm going to invariably do beforehand, I have no choice in the matter.
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 11:49 am
@imuthis,
technically you still have choices just choices he knows you are going to make.
However him hardening your heart like he did the pheroh to not let the jews go and then killing all the first born babies is upsetting to me.

That is not free will when that will is manipulated by God himself.
Basically what the bible and the Koran say is that God will not let you see the truth and it is why you will not have faith in him.

I think God does not know the defintion of free will.
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 12:33 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;21824 wrote:
technically you still have choices just choices he knows you are going to make.


If he knows beforehand there's no choice.

Quote:
However him hardening your heart like he did the pheroh to not let the jews go and then killing all the first born babies is upsetting to me.


Really?

Quote:
That is not free will when that will is manipulated by God himself.


Nor when it has been determined beforehand.

Quote:
Basically what the bible and the Koran say is that God will not let you see the truth and it is why you will not have faith in him.


Of course they do. The inventors know that no person thinking with "truth" in mind would buy into silly superstition.

Quote:
I think God does not know the defintion of free will.


That hardly fits the definition of an all-knowing God, now does it?
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 01:05 pm
@imuthis,
No LOL Hey I am with you here silver.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:03 pm
@STNGfan,
STNGfan;21824 wrote:
technically you still have choices just choices he knows you are going to make.
However him hardening your heart like he did the pheroh to not let the jews go and then killing all the first born babies is upsetting to me.

That is not free will when that will is manipulated by God himself.
Basically what the bible and the Koran say is that God will not let you see the truth and it is why you will not have faith in him.

I think God does not know the defintion of free will.


God does not manipulate the will of people. God just knows what choices they will make, it doesn't mean they can't choose what they want. And God may do things that will change the attitudes of people, but people can do that to others as well, so I guess you're anti-human?
0 Replies
 
STNGfan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:08 pm
@imuthis,
Ok then what is this

God hardened the pherohs heart to not let the jews go and so the pheroh did not let the jews go.

The pheroh made a choice based on the manipulation of his heart.

are you saying God did not do this even though it says so right in your bible?

what kind of choice do you have when God has manipulated your heart? It makes the pheroh bais in his decisions.

That is not a true choice.

yes I am anti-human LOL
what freakn garbabge you people get sucked into.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:12 pm
@imuthis,
Actually, God probably meant that he will harden Pharoah's heart through his acts "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt", so really, it doesn't change anything.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 02:59 pm
@imuthis,
It is amazing (and a bi-product of our culture) that as soon as you say you belive in Creation you're automatically assumed a Christian
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 03:05 pm
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;21899 wrote:
It is amazing (and a bi-product of our culture) that as soon as you say you belive in Creation you're automatically assumed a Christian


No, our little friend here assumes you're a Christian if you think babies shouldn't be murdered.
0 Replies
 
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 03:41 pm
@imuthis,
that's odd

I'm both personally Pro-Life and a subscriber to Creation Theory and I'm an Agnostic

The majority of the Chruches teach you that any non christian is a godless heathen incapable of morality, so I can see where that comes from
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 06:15 pm
@One Man Clan,
One Man Clan;21821 wrote:
It's not theory, it's truth.

If God invariably knows what I'm going to invariably do beforehand, I have no choice in the matter.
How do you not have choice when it is you that doesn't know?
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 07:36 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;21917 wrote:
How do you not have choice when it is you that doesn't know?


Because it has already been determined.

If God knows what's going to happen beforehand, that's what's going to happen, I can't stop it.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 08:50 pm
@One Man Clan,
One Man Clan;21930 wrote:
Because it has already been determined.

If God knows what's going to happen beforehand, that's what's going to happen, I can't stop it.
No you can't, but why would you?
One Man Clan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 09:04 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;21949 wrote:
No you can't, but why would you?


You're missing the point.

I can't change what's already been determined for me, that's not free will.
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jun, 2007 09:20 pm
@One Man Clan,
One Man Clan;21956 wrote:
You're missing the point.

I can't change what's already been determined for me, that's not free will.
 

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