Baptism: What's your take on it

Wow, I'll never make those kind of decisions for my children. What a sad invasion of personal freedom. Talk about being brainwashed from an early age, wouldn't you want your children to discover the truth on their own?

Basicly all that you have said is that all people sin, i don't see how that is supposed to further your point...:dunno:

Perhaps one day you will.

Don't try to BS me! You say that you can only be moral if you believe the bible and then you say that all people sin...so what you said would actually contradict your original statement!

No, I did not say that you can only be moral if you believe the Bible; believing the Bible will never make one good no matter how often we might read it. I said God alone is the only one that is good. I also said that our goodness in comparison to God's is like filthy rags.

"The Dalai Lama has said that compassion and affection are human values independent of religion: We need these human values. I call these secular ethics, secular beliefs. There’s no relationship with any particular religion. Even without religion, even as nonbelievers, we have the capacity to promote these things.

This notion may be supported by the traditional Christian concept of natural law. The Catholic Church teaches that human reason inclines people to seek the good and avoid sin, and that people would therefore still be prone to moral behavior even without knowledge of a revealed divine law."


-http://www.answers.com/topic/criticism-of-atheism

And a perfect example of such is mentioned in the New Testament Scriptural writings of the apostle Paul in the book of Romans, as he indeed makes an "inspired" statement concerning those that are law unto themselves, "For when the Gentiles (anyone not of the Jewish faith), which have not the law (truth from God provided to man via scriptures), do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law, are a law unto themselves; Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearng witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my Gospel (Romans 2:14-16).

This simply means that man's morality is somewhat inherent in his birth, but in the end NO man shall escape the judgment of the words of Christ....due to the fact that "ALL" men sin and fall short of the glory of God, even if they live by the law of nature, for they do not even do that which is ingrained into their heart from birth, and the "only" salvation rests within the Grace offered by the Blood of the Christ, for all have come up short, when depending upon their own merit, as all have Sinned...regardless, if they live under the law or not, because Sin is "LAWLESSNESS"(1 John 3:4), and all men sin, even those that do so "NATURALLY" by the Laws provided by nature, which is WRITTEN on their hearts by God in Nature. RD

so then what advantage is there by indoctrinating your children with the bible?

Wow, I'll never make those kind of decisions for my children. What a sad invasion of personal freedom. Talk about being brainwashed from an early age, wouldn't you want your children to discover the truth on their own?

It's a Christian parent's responsibility to teach their children the difference between right from wrong, and to let them know that it is wrong to do wrong and it's right to do what is right.

Why? So that they can grow to love God and see that God is good and that God want all people to love doing good.

If you believe that teaching ones child from the Bible is indoctrination, then what would you call a non believer teaching one's child their own values? Would not that also be called indoctrination? Or do you believe that indoctrination only involve religion?

that can be done without religion

i'm talking about real-world advantages, loving god wount help you untill you die, assuming it's all true to begin with.

Don't make assumptions, I believe teaching your child atheism is just as bad as teaching them christanity, i'm all for letting them decide for themselves which will teach them to be more independent and open minded!

Fatal, it does not sound as though you have children of your own. No successful parent would allow their children to make up their own minds about anything without proper training and experience. Wild animals learn from their parents how to survive, why should our children not be given the same leadership?

Well I'm not into religion; I'm speaking about God and His word. With out God how would one be sure of what is right from what is wrong? Most of our western values came from the influence of Christians. Jesus said that we (Christians) are the salt of the earth. What does salt have on food? It acts as a preserving agent, it brings out the flavor of foods. This is the effect that Christians have had on those they came into contact with.

If one loves God, they will desire to and seek to do what is right in His eyes; which means that person will not lie, take from others what is not rightfully theirs...

The advantage is that that person would be bringing glory to God, because they would be seeing God in that individual, even if they don't recognize or believe in Him.

Let me answer that by asking you this, should the air port not allow people who want to be pilot learn to fly a plane before he or she is qualified to fly their plane? Should they let that person get in the cockpit and just figure it out for them selves?

You cannot separate God from morality; if there is no God then each person or nation has the right to decide for it self what is right from what is wrong.

Think about it a little, what if one person or nation decides that it’s right to invade another nation and take and kill for what it wants, even if his neighbor was at peace with him and others?

Think of the destruction, devastation and moral confusion this world would be in, had Christians not have had a positive effect on this world.

In fact had not Christians not have has the effect on the world that it did; mankind would have long ago destroyed itself, if God Himself didn’t do it first.

In a world in which people do not believe in God, no two people would agree on what is right and what is wrong.

Sorry i can't tell if your actually agreeing with me or not...

Where did you learn about jesus from? religion correct? Face the facts! Religion and belief in god is irreversibly intertwined. they would not exist without the other.




In concept that may be true, but in reality belief in your book doesn't prevent people from lying or stealing.




Just as i've said, there is no advantage to a religious upbringing.



That is a false analogy! If the child chooses the wrong belief they are not going to die, nor is the decision permenant, a child may not even give deep thought to religion (or lack therof) untill they are much older, even then their mind may change many times before settling on one belief!



Am I not a moral person? It is easy to see even those who believe in god can be very immoral! The difference between right and wrong can be learned without god, if fear of eternal punishment is the only thing that prevents you from murder than you have more problems than I. Whether you recognize it or not right and wrong is based on what will benefit society and what won't, you can see this theme throughout the world proof by a similar set of morals from culture that have been completely isolated from each other.




obviously belief in god didn't stop this christian-majority nation from starting illegitimate wars.



like? The crusades, the spanish conquest, Witch trials, Spanish inquisition, genocide of native americans, holocaust etc...

yeah those are some real positive affects, christanity has brought about as much progress and devastation to this world as any other religion!




can you prove this or is this major speculation on your part?




looks like that is already happening and always has been, even with christanity!

I am agreeing with the scriptures, as it describes that morality is not only found via the written law but also via the natural law. All man lives by law, whether its the written law in script or the unwritten law that man is born with written on his heart by God. Man does have a sense of morality that is inherently within regardless of his exposure to formal religion. RD