Moses and Judaism, Inspired by God or Egypt?

Yet his personal bible was not included in his suicide and orders to be burned.

You have to to church to be a christian. The bible actually says that worship is a private thing. Just a bit of redundancy.

You can find contracdictions in anything.

The bible also makes claims that god told men to rape women on more than one occasion.

the first surviving Egyptian books of the dead hail from the 16th Century BCE, so whether you subscribe to a 15h, 13th, or 12th century Exodus they were very much "available". And if you subscribe to a 15th century Exodus (and I do) then the Book of the dead (assuming by survival that it isn't even older then the 16th century) is suddenly a very recent and moving work of scripture. One that could insight a spiritual rift and division within the Egyptian community as a whole. Which is exactly what the Exodus was.

Are you noticing a trend in this debate? My point of view includes all known history, while yours requires serious omission and disregard for things which are known.

I never denied that (besides the last few sentences). I thought you seemed to be insinuating that Akhenaton played a role in developing the Book of the Dead. The Ten Commandments may be similar to the book of the dead, but the 'negative confession' in the latter and the Ten Commandments are simply basic general guidelines and laws for society. They were common sense.

The Israelites had no need to transfer from Egyptian religion to their former one because they did not convert, so there was little, if any, impact on them, especially since it it was hardly 'new', consisting partly of two older books.

Oh but they did convert, prior to the Exodus the Israelites had a very different name for God, I don't remember it off hand but it was a very simple 3 letter name (maybe Ell), not even close to Yaweh. They did convert in a sense because they took on a whole new set of rules in the form of the 1st covenant and changed them name of their God. Sounds like a conversion if I've ever seen one.

But this thread is about Moses, and Moses had some revolutionary ideas about what God was, out of the box thinking for both the Jews and the Egyptian. And the question this thread asks is what inspired Him? And while my data may not be conclusive, it answers more questions then it creates historically and that is the hallmark of truth.

Or natural progression of a religion. It happens inevitably.

I don't see why Moses couldn't be inspired by faith or God, must everything of a religious nature have a secular explanation for you?

No matter how many wrong or doubtful answers are given, they don't amount to a good one.

no but yes. I believe very strongly in God, and I believe we can see his truths by learning of his creations.

Moving away from the topic and talking "feelings" I would offer that God appearing in all manner of manifestation, sending avatars to earth, and then suddenly going silent for 2000 years would be in stark conflict with the concept of a timeless and perfect god who never changes (which I subscribe to).

I was raised Christian but have sense learned to subject it to the same scrutiny I put to other religions. After all when we talk about the "right" religion we're talking about something which is flawless. So then even upon the most calculated scrutiny it must prove flawless. Wouldn't a flawless Diamond pass such a test?

Alas, I feel after all my learning and consideration Christianity has failed that test, I honestly wish it hadn't, it would be great to "know" God. He currently seems unwilling to reveal himself to me in full so I will continue to conduct myself in a manner that demonstrates to him that I know he's watching. And part of that is keeping nothing "Holy" as I search for the truth of the past. Should you be able to gather information in support of your claims I'm glad to hear it, but as it stands your perception of reality is rooted largely in faith.

Faith is a wonderful thing, but when I see tangible evidence that it has got something wrong I cannot continue to subscribe to it. After all, God IS watching...

I know this was not to me, but I shall answer anyways.

Untill the NONsecular answer's have more proof to back them up than "The Bible"... YES


My biggest problem with the argument of god and the bible, is if it were so blatant that tis deity exists, why are we not able to prove it? Why do we have to have blind faith. Everything in the world telss us "Following blind is dangerous" Except with god. Hypocritical.

OMG!!!!!! You're referring to literal interpretation of the Bible, e.g., FUNDAMENTALISM. Yes, it's a curse to Christianity. That's why Martin Luther should be reviled by modern society and declared a criminal against God.

Fortuneatley we know the Bible is falliable (being written by man, being translated by differnt men over and over and over again) so we wont dig up ole Martin and try him for crimes against humanity.

I referred to history as His-Story. His-Story meaning God's story, not Satan's. Satan corrupts that story and creates chaos. That chaos confuses mankind into believing that parts is parts and any religion is the same as any other, therefore throw the baby out with the bath water.

You missed my allusion. I forgot I need to spell it out because your world view is soooo much different from mine. With God's grace, I'll try to remember this in the future.

Cite the passage in which the bible makes that claim, or be identified as a liar.

You can't have a thread about Moses and keep the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob out of it.

There were no Israelites prior to Jacob being named Israel by Yahweh.

From the Holman Quicksource Bible Atlas. The names for the only living and true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; used by the world (since Israel was not yet born) prior to the Exodus included:

El-Shaddai (All Powerful God) Gen 17:1-2;

El-Elyon (MostHigh God/Exalted One) Gen 14:18-20;

El-Olam (The Eternal God) Gen 21:33;

El-Roi (God Who Sees Me) Gen 16:13;

Shapat (Judge/Ruler) Gen 18:25;

Yahweh-Jireh (Yahweh Provides) Gen 22:14

Reagaknight, It's called denial. It's called rejection of God. If a person rejects God, why do you think they will accept an argument from a man that callenges that rejection. Their whole life is based on their belief that their rejection of God is right. Just as a Christian takes every thought captive to Christ, every time someone who rejects Christ encounters something that doesn't fit with that rejection, they take the resulting thoughts captive to their choice to rejct Christ's sacrifice and look for reasons to maintain their faith in their rejection.

Isn't that conceptual framework putting limits on God?

Can a microb prove humans exist?

What's this we stuff Kemosabi???

Pino, He wasn't the only person who translated the Bible into a language other than latin and he wasn't the first.

Which passgage? Prayer should be lept in private, or Rape ordered by god? Fuk it I will give both. OF course I am sure you will give me some response in the neighborhood of Out Of Context or blah blah blah....

Here they are.

PRayer in private

Your Matthew Chapter 6 Verses 5 and 6

5
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

Rape is Okay-

Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)



So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.



The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."



Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)



They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)



As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

*this one above has a trifector rape Murder and slavery is okay LOL)

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)



If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Just pay the girls dad and marry her, great punishment for rape God.

David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)



Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

Hey look bring the victim to the rapist, great idea, and lets kill a kid for extra points

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)



"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)



They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)



Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Is that enough not to be DEEMED a liar.

You have been pwnt... keep your bible if this is your god that wrote it, or do you simply re translate everything that was written?

You are right about the context caveate.

The Word of God speaks. If people open their ears, they are able to listen and act.

You are mixing the ideas of worship and prayer. While at times they can be the same, prayer should be private.

The first passage you cite speaks to those who pray in public with a different agenda than to communicate with or praise God.

As to your second citation; what is the inner room?

The inner room. Could quite litterally mean a room inside your house. Or it could me in your mind.