Moses and Judaism, Inspired by God or Egypt?

@Silverchild79,

Talk about out there.

The author of the site admits this about the content of the web site: "The "Illuminations" website began as a hypertext project in 1994 and eventually grew to include research material for screenplay writing projects."

He also has poems about acid trips. Are you stating that this type of source should be considered as fact?

See here under the profile link. Illuminations

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@Silverchild79,

no the only thing I'm referencing is the direct quotes from the various sources, I really don't care about the individual person, just the fact that Judaism and Ancient Egypt seem to parallel each other.

would you claim you couldn't believe the sky was blue if the first person who told you was unreliable? Actually after reading his bio he seems like a rational, very intelligent person.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;17452 wrote:

no the only thing I'm referencing is the direct quotes from the various sources, I really don't care about the individual person, just the fact that Judaism and Ancient Egypt seem to parallel each other.

would you claim you couldn't believe the sky was blue if the first person who told you was unreliable? Actually after reading his bio he seems like a rational, very intelligent person.

To answer the last first: I'd trust but verify. He may be very intelligent. Very intelligently creating fiction he can use in a screen play.

How many hundreds of years were the children of Israel in Egypt before being set free?

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@Silverchild79,

I don't know the exact number but many many years

I'm not saying your can't rationally be leary of him as a person

but that isn't grounds for saying the OT doesn't say what it says and Old Egypt doesn't say what it says. From my understanding of Egyptian mythology he would be accurate. Horus was also referred to as "The Lamb of God", was born a virgin in some accounts, and his death benefited his chosen people, another Judea/Christian Parallel.

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@Silverchild79,

This is far-fetched. They are similarities that can easily be coincidental, taken out of context, consist of unimportant verses, or a mixture of them all for the most part. The Book of the Dead's confessions and the Ten Commandments are similar in some ways because these are common rules of society.

Moses would not have been that familiar with the Aton because worship of it ceased shortly after Akhenaton died, so that's two arguments that can't be true.

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@Silverchild79,

he lived in the 1300's BCE, the most thorough research places the Exodus around 1500BCE which would have been well before the death of Akhenaton

even if those who don't agree and still (against fairly hard evidence) maintain that the exodus happened in the 1300's BCE, his reign didn't even end till the late 1330's which would make an adult Moses quite aware of the Book of the Dead

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@Silverchild79,

I know you're going to dislike this, but here goes:

Similarities with His-Story are the life blood of Satan's attempts to deceive.

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@Volunteer,

Volunteer;17505 wrote:

I know you're going to dislike this, but here goes:

Similarities with His-Story are the life blood of Satan's attempts to deceive.

On the contrary I like it just fine, "If you don't side with me your worshiping the devil" is an interesting piece of history (I like how you imply that recorded history is a tool of the devil) and still a very effective tool against the uneducated average joe. Like any other boogy man, once light shines in he's nowhere to be found. What a terrible thing to think that within the next few hundred years man will have to comes to terms with the fact that he can't blame his sins on a 6000 year old serpent and cover them with a 2000 year old execution, but take responsibility for them himself.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;17520 wrote:

On the contrary I like it just fine, "If you don't side with me your worshiping the devil" is an interesting piece of history and still a very effective tool against the uneducated average joe. Like any other boogy man, once light shines in he's nowhere to be found. What a terrible thing to think that within the next few hundred years man will have to comes to terms with the fact that he can't blame his sins on a 6000 year old serpent and cover them with a 2000 year old execution, but take responsibility for them himself.

I wasn't casting aspersions. I was pointing out the similarity and the tactic.

There are two ways to learn; from the mistakes of others or by personal experience. The Bible provides examples of the mistakes of others for us to learn from their mistakes. It also provides examples of right behavior. It explains the consequence of both types of mind set and behavior.

The whole point of the Bible is that man must take responsibility for his sins and respect God. Sins are only sins if the individual has responsibility and there is some external measure of the sin.

Each person comes to terms with their sin in their lifetime. If they ignore their sin or blame it on some other external entity, they will reap the consequence when they move from their mortal tent.

Absent from the body, present with the Lord. It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement.

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@Silverchild79,

Silverchild79;17502 wrote:

he lived in the 1300's BCE, the most thorough research places the Exodus around 1500BCE which would have been well before the death of Akhenaton

even if those who don't agree and still (against fairly hard evidence) maintain that the exodus happened in the 1300's BCE, his reign didn't even end till the late 1330's which would make an adult Moses quite aware of the Book of the Dead

Well, Aton wasn't worshipped before Akhenaton either, so same thing. Science can't even conclude whether Moses existed or not, it's hardly able to make conclusions about what he did/was influenced by. I gave my own response to the Book of the Dead thing, common rules to hold society together and obvious wrongdoings. And Akhenaton didn't have anything to do with the Book of the Dead, if that's what you're saying.

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@Reagaknight,

Reagaknight;17533 wrote:

And Akhenaton didn't have anything to do with the Book of the Dead, if that's what you're saying.

no spin, go back and read through the thread. You said

Reagaknight;17461 wrote:

Moses would not have been that familiar with the Aton because worship of it ceased shortly after Akhenaton died, so that's two arguments that can't be true.

to which I replied

Silverchild79;17502 wrote:

he lived in the 1300's BCE, the most thorough research places the Exodus around 1500BCE which would have been well before the death of Akhenaton

even if those who don't agree and still (against fairly hard evidence) maintain that the exodus happened in the 1300's BCE, his reign didn't even end till the late 1330's which would make an adult Moses quite aware of the Book of the Dead

to which you replied

Reagaknight;17533 wrote:

Well, Aton wasn't worshipped before Akhenaton either

so which is it my teatertottering opponent? At first you said his worship didn't stop until after Akhenaton's death and now you claim they didn't worship him before he died either. Your hopping around like I'm firing a revolver at your feet in a Gold Rush town...

it doesn't matter what was popular during that time anyways, in fact for their to be an ideological conflict Moses would have to be believing in something against the grain to begin with. If he agreed with the Paroh there wouldn't be much of a story at all would there? What matters as it pertains to this thread is what was available to Moses...

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@Volunteer,

Volunteer;17505 wrote:

I know you're going to dislike this, but here goes:

Similarities with His-Story are the life blood of Satan's attempts to deceive.

I'm quoting this again because I don't want anyone to miss it

here my opponent refers to History as His-Story and references it to Satan

is this your truth? a truth that casts aside rational knowledge the moment it challenges your predetermined conclusions?

I have heard many things referred to as "of the devil" but never a History book, you sir have taken the cake

I humbly present to you this small token on recognition of your blind faith...

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Park/2070/ohyeaman.GIF

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

Well, did you imply Akhenaton had something to do with writing the Book of the Dead or not?

Let me clarify: Akhenaton first brought the religion of Aton into Egypt as the official religion, but it swiftly died out after his reign, so Exodus would have to have taken place during the reign of Akhenaton to, which your information about the dates says cannot be true.

1 Reply

@Silverchild79,

There are two ways to learn; from the mistakes of others or by personal experience. The Bible provides examples of the mistakes of others for us to learn from their mistakes. It also provides examples of right behavior. It explains the consequence of both types of mind set and behavior.

You know there was another book dedicated to teaching others, pointing heavily towards learning from others mistakes.

Its called Mein Kampf

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@Silverchild79,

Okay, you're attacking the Bible because it includes stories about how people did things wrong and faced consequences and suggested that the reader should not do the same and because it teaches moral lessons, and you find this to be similar to Mein Kampf, therefore, the Bible is like Mein Kampf?

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@Silverchild79,

Actually Yes.

Mein Kampf also had moral lessons (Millions believed they were moral anyhow) *no I am not one of those millions)

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@Silverchild79,

The U.S. Constitution includes what can be considered moral lessons, so it should be held in the same regard as Mein Kampf and treated accordingly, then, I suppose?

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@Silverchild79,

Depends on your view point.

If god is all, then you follow the bible.

If their is a superior race, then you go with Mein Kampf

If your american, you go with the Constitution

There can be crossovers, remember Hitler was a Catholic

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@Silverchild79,

And he went to church every Sunday too, I believe, and never set himself up as a semi-God or sent people to concentration camps because they were Catholic either. The pope loved him, too.

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Moses and Judaism, Inspired by God or Egypt?

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