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President Bush Says Schools Should Teach 'Intelligent Design' Alongside Evolution

 
 
Mandeville cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2007 06:51 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;38925 wrote:
You got that word right, MODIFIED. Every new generation keeps finding that the Theory does not add up, so they have to keep coming up with new excuses to explain each new obvious error. The last joke was soft tissue. Remember how they told us we would never find soft tissue in dinosaur bones because that tissue would be gone in less than 10,000 years. Then some researcher found soft tissue in a dinosaur bone in montana.
Guess what, now they are telling us soft tissue can last 70 million years. The fact is the Bible describes dinosaurs, and there is evidence outside of the Bible that suggest that dinosaurs have been around just in the last three to four thousand years. Don't expect to see that evidence in your classroom. They will tell you what you need to know, and nothing more.


I am afraid you don't fully grasp the understanding of the word 'theory' and the amount of research and evidence such a device supports, my friend.
mlurp
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 12:40 am
@Brent cv,
Brent;46 wrote:
Do you agree or disagree with this view?
Discuss Smile
I don't honestly. Religon has no place in school, the theory of evolution is scientific, Intelligent Design is not.
It is up to the parents to teach their kids about Religon


Just when did you go to school? When I went from 1952 o 1964 school was a place to learn not having personel meetings and locations to gather to text others not paying attention in class.
Sience Class ciovered a lot.
Oh yes that means I disagree.....
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 01:07 am
@Mandeville cv,
Mandeville;39015 wrote:
I am afraid you don't fully grasp the understanding of the word 'theory' and the amount of research and evidence such a device supports, my friend.


And I afraid you don't fully grasp the understanding of truth and cover up my friend. There is a lot of evidence out there that is an embarrassment to the believers of Evolution. Most of that evidence is placed on shelves and filed away never to see the light of day. Just like the clay figurines buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain on the outskirts of Acambaro, Mexico. In 1945 archeologist Waldemar Julsrud discovered 33,000 ceramic figurines. Now that discovery would of been accepted by the scientific community except a number of the figurines actually depicted dinosaurs. Who ever made these, would have to of actually observed these creatures, yet with todays science, most of this evidence is simply packed away. There's to many egos, and way to much grant money on the line for that truth to come out. This was not just some isolated event, there are other places around the world where dinosaurs are dipicted in carved rock drawings and Roman mosaic's from around 200 A.D. If the Theory of Evolution is so solid, why must all this evidence be hidden away?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2007 05:40 am
@Neeto,
Neeto;726 wrote:
Evolution is a theory. Until it's actually proven, it's a technically a theory just like everyone else's religious beliefs. The difference being that people who don't believe in a "god" can't stomach a god theory.
Surprise, surprise! People who believe in a god can't stomach a god-less theory. So as outlandish as creationism seems to some people (and possibly you reading this right now), it is likely just as ridiculous to someone else that everything happened by chance and without the hand of God the creator.

Evolutionism sounds like a religion to me personally. I say we need to stop teaching this THEORY as fact, since it ISN'T a proven fact.


I will freely admit that my beliefs are theory. Will you? Should we stop teaching your theory beucase "it ISN'T a proven fact"?

I've never heard it referred to as the "theory of intelligent design" or the "theory of creationism".

(As an aside, I know there are a few people here that just said "Oh hell, HE'S here." Smile )
0 Replies
 
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 11:36 am
@Brent cv,
That's confusion...there is only one truth, not two opposing and conflicting truths. Either God created all things, or everything came about on its own.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 07:17 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;39079 wrote:
And I afraid you don't fully grasp the understanding of truth and cover up my friend. There is a lot of evidence out there that is an embarrassment to the believers of Evolution. Most of that evidence is placed on shelves and filed away never to see the light of day. Just like the clay figurines buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain on the outskirts of Acambaro, Mexico. In 1945 archeologist Waldemar Julsrud discovered 33,000 ceramic figurines. Now that discovery would of been accepted by the scientific community except a number of the figurines actually depicted dinosaurs. Who ever made these, would have to of actually observed these creatures, yet with todays science, most of this evidence is simply packed away. There's to many egos, and way to much grant money on the line for that truth to come out. This was not just some isolated event, there are other places around the world where dinosaurs are dipicted in carved rock drawings and Roman mosaic's from around 200 A.D. If the Theory of Evolution is so solid, why must all this evidence be hidden away?


I can show you figurines depicting dragons and about a hundred different gods. Should we consider these?

"Who ever made these, would have to of actually observed these creatures"

You said it yourself Smile
0 Replies
 
briansol
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 10:35 am
@Brent cv,
I think modern religious topics should be taught similarly to Greek mythology. I never came home from school feeling the need to 'worship zeus' or the 'gods'.

I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us feel the idea of the god of fire is absurd....

2000 years from now, when science has pretty much completely dis-credited the bible, the idea of adam and eve will be absurd too.

Some folks, and no dis-credit to their beliefs, just hold on to the Bible too literally.

Remember kids, the bible STORIES are what the common time was for explaining things they could not explain.

Growing up, I remember when there were thunderstorms, mom would tell me "god is bowling tonight" and it would make me feel safer/happy instead of "well son, when an atmospheric hi runs into an atmospheric low area of pressure, the two don't mix like oil and water... so the by product is static electricity and a lot of sonic collisions....."

God is bowling just makes everything easier - which is exactly what the Bible is all about.... making things for the common man able to understand the unexplainable.



Our lineage is nearly all but proven from evolution. to beleive in adam and eve AS adam and eve is absurd in this day and age.

There was no adam.
There was no eve.

There was only the IDEA of A/E.

But to explain to everyone nice and easy where they came from, they made up the two paternal and maternal figures. And this, my friends, is what the bible is all about.

Watch out for Hecatoncheires on your way home today
Silverchild79
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 11:14 am
@briansol,
briansol;41677 wrote:

Our lineage is nearly all but proven from evolution. to beleive in adam and eve AS adam and eve is absurd in this day and age.

There was no adam.
There was no eve.

There was only the IDEA of A/E.


the Garden of Eden story found in Genisis is an adaptation of a creation story from Mesopotamia. The stories are similar, the main difference being that the Serpent was actually the creator in the 1st story. But as is common with new religions, the former God becomes the new Evil and so the serpent finds it's place in the "modern" Eden story

The great flood in Genesis also has it's roots in Sumerian text

Deluge (mythology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
0 Replies
 
briansol
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 11:20 am
@Brent cv,
and once again, science has "proved" or is at least on its way to proving both of those events.

the garden of eden:
Google Maps

yup. right there.
now, its flooded out.

the story, talks of 3 or 4 major rivers converging at the garden.
extend down those rivers into the bay, and there you have your garden, now flooded due to climatic events which raised the sea levels way back when.

history channel had a whole show on this.
Mysteries of the Garden of Eden - Mysteries of the Garden of Eden

on wednesday again. tivo it.
0 Replies
 
mommamia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 01:51 pm
@Brent cv,
I don't think they should teach either.

Just to believe in intelligent design does not mean you believe in a biblical creation. If the govt gets to teach it, it will be focused on a fantasy in a story book called the bible.

Evolution as an adaptive tool of biological organisms is pretty well proven, evolution as the origin of life is still a very shaky theory. Ie, organisms evolve through changes in genetic makeup, but where did the first living cells come from? Sciencetists are still working on that part. Yet it is almost always presented as fact. I even heard someone tell me it was proven. Which proves they no nothing about how things are done, theory can be disproven, not proven, even if 10,000 experiments support your theory, it only takes one to disprove it.
0 Replies
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 05:12 pm
@Brent cv,
I posted this elsewhere but i think it is relevent for this topic too.

Well I would suggest investigating and therefore understanding the science involved in the Big Bang theory is very much still in its infancy.

Up until Darwin it was basically given that pretty much 100% of peope believed in some form of Deity, which one is irrelent. Once his theory of evolution was understood and accepted by a lot of the scientific world other sciences devolped, explored and questioned whether the world was made in 6 days and therefore by a Deity.

Now your nexr question will be: But they are theories, how do you know?

Well the Theory of Relativity, although a theroy is still accepted as fact by the scientific world. No person has been able to prove Einstien wrong on this, correct.

Although they are theories, they are built upon solid investigating, challenging ideas, testing and retesting, stretching the science as far as it is phyisically possible with the technology we have at our dispossal, exploring all avenues to a conclusion. Ultimately if the science says 'Actually eveything was made by a Deity' then cool so be it, at least it has been proved. As yet everything that i have seen, read, and experienced leads me to believe there is not an all powerfull supernatural being that created us.

As for the Big Bang, well actual investigating is probably know more than 75 years old, verses books that are between 1700-1300 years olds, with there ideas ingrained in society and the beliefs held together with no other proof other than the scriptures are the words of God/ Allah, no proof, no investigating, no challenging the ideas. A closed book that is lived by, fought and killed for and with such backward and Medievil thinking that if you take the meaning literally, we would still be stoning people, rape would be aceptable and anyone with an opposing view, ie the Big Bang theory would be also killed as heretics.

There are a Billion Billion stars in this universe, are you saying a Deity who made man in his own image created it all as it was and for ever how it should be, i think this idea is far more fantastical than the big bang theory.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2007 12:09 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;41794 wrote:
I posted this elsewhere but i think it is relevent for this topic too.

Well I would suggest investigating and therefore understanding the science involved in the Big Bang theory is very much still in its infancy.

Up until Darwin it was basically given that pretty much 100% of peope believed in some form of Deity, which one is irrelent. Once his theory of evolution was understood and accepted by a lot of the scientific world other sciences devolped, explored and questioned whether the world was made in 6 days and therefore by a Deity.

Now your nexr question will be: But they are theories, how do you know?

Well the Theory of Relativity, although a theroy is still accepted as fact by the scientific world. No person has been able to prove Einstien wrong on this, correct.

Although they are theories, they are built upon solid investigating, challenging ideas, testing and retesting, stretching the science as far as it is phyisically possible with the technology we have at our dispossal, exploring all avenues to a conclusion. Ultimately if the science says 'Actually eveything was made by a Deity' then cool so be it, at least it has been proved. As yet everything that i have seen, read, and experienced leads me to believe there is not an all powerfull supernatural being that created us.

As for the Big Bang, well actual investigating is probably know more than 75 years old, verses books that are between 1700-1300 years olds, with there ideas ingrained in society and the beliefs held together with no other proof other than the scriptures are the words of God/ Allah, no proof, no investigating, no challenging the ideas. A closed book that is lived by, fought and killed for and with such backward and Medievil thinking that if you take the meaning literally, we would still be stoning people, rape would be aceptable and anyone with an opposing view, ie the Big Bang theory would be also killed as heretics.

There are a Billion Billion stars in this universe, are you saying a Deity who made man in his own image created it all as it was and for ever how it should be, i think this idea is far more fantastical than the big bang theory.


In my 57 years on this earth, much of what I have experienced and have seen leads me to believe that there is without question, a supernatural power in our universe. And the one that controls that power will be returning to a world that has gone mad. A world filled with theories and ideas, yet as the Bible states, a world that is ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And as the Bible states, if it were not for His return man would destroy himself. The Bible clearly tells us that before God returns to this world, He will allow the Jews to return to the land of Israel, they will retake Jerusalem, and Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until God returns and opens it Himself. The nations of the world are going to bring man to the point of total destruction. And the Bible tells us that the last battle on earth will be fought over the control of Jerusalem. As I look over the nations and see what is coming, I can say without question, the Bible has spoken the truth.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2007 08:51 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;42494 wrote:
In my 57 years on this earth, much of what I have experienced and have seen leads me to believe that there is without question, a supernatural power in our universe. And the one that controls that power will be returning to a world that has gone mad. A world filled with theories and ideas, yet as the Bible states, a world that is ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And as the Bible states, if it were not for His return man would destroy himself. The Bible clearly tells us that before God returns to this world, He will allow the Jews to return to the land of Israel, they will retake Jerusalem, and Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until God returns and opens it Himself. The nations of the world are going to bring man to the point of total destruction. And the Bible tells us that the last battle on earth will be fought over the control of Jerusalem. As I look over the nations and see what is coming, I can say without question, the Bible has spoken the truth.



OK, I hear what you are saying, but do you subscribe to the full and true meaning of the bible, old testament and new testament?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2007 09:31 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;42533 wrote:
OK, I hear what you are saying, but do you subscribe to the full and true meaning of the bible, old testament and new testament?


This actually is a key question to ask believers. People tend to cherry pick the Bible. If you believe in the Bible, then you have to believe in it cover to cover. You may not have the mental and/or material wherewithal to follow its every tenent, but you will have to believe in it as a complete truth. If you don't then you cannot claim it to be the word of god.

So believers need to make that choice before pushing the book as gods work.
0 Replies
 
briansol
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Oct, 2007 12:19 pm
@Brent cv,
believing in a super power, doesn't mean beleiving in the bible, or any faith for that matter.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:35 pm
@Brent cv,
Theory vs. Hypothesis vs. Law: Unraveling the Confusion of Important Terminology
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 11:42 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;42494 wrote:
In my 57 years on this earth, much of what I have experienced and have seen leads me to believe that there is without question, a supernatural power in our universe. And the one that controls that power will be returning to a world that has gone mad. A world filled with theories and ideas, yet as the Bible states, a world that is ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. And as the Bible states, if it were not for His return man would destroy himself. The Bible clearly tells us that before God returns to this world, He will allow the Jews to return to the land of Israel, they will retake Jerusalem, and Jerusalems East Gate will remain sealed until God returns and opens it Himself. The nations of the world are going to bring man to the point of total destruction. And the Bible tells us that the last battle on earth will be fought over the control of Jerusalem. As I look over the nations and see what is coming, I can say without question, the Bible has spoken the truth.


The bible may "clearly say" something Mr.Campbell. So what? How does that make it true. Darwin made some clear assertions in his books. That did not make them true. Subsequent investigation did. The investigations brought im genetics to the mix and changed evolutionary theories quite a bit , enriching them in the process.

I cite that example Mr.Campbell to assert that just because the Bible, The Koran or you (re. the voices of god in your head) or I (regarding my atheist views) say something, it doesn't make it true. We need to offer proof.

I am still awaiting yours. And please, while I love your Biblical quotes, they are not the proof required for you to make your case. There is a logic here I need for you to grasp. Thank you
0 Replies
 
Brian764
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:24 am
@briansol,
briansol;42618 wrote:
believing in a super power, doesn't mean beleiving in the bible, or any faith for that matter.


Well that's a no brainer, the pagans did not believe in the God of the Bible but they did believe in a god or gods.
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:33 am
@Brent cv,
Biblical creationism is simply nuts. Anybody who literally believes that nonsense isn't using his head.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:39 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;43026 wrote:
Biblical creationism is simply nuts. Anybody who literally believes that nonsense isn't using his head.


Who are you and what have you done to our friend Pinochet73?
0 Replies
 
 

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