DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 09:57 am
@panzade,
And I agree with others that "People of Color" is not a very good description.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 10:01 am
@DrewDad,
NAACP seems comfortable with it. Is it seeing a comeback?
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 10:09 am
@DrewDad,
i have always been a big fan of crayons, i describe myself as a "person who colours"
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 11:29 am
@panzade,
panzade wrote:

NAACP seems comfortable with it. Is it seeing a comeback?

Kentucky Fried Chicken has rebranded itself as KFC....
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 01:37 pm
Is Nadal a "person of color"? I don't know. The racists of the 19th century decrying the immigration of Southern Europeans to the US would have referred to him as a "dirty white," or some such epithet.

To me the question about Nadal isn't race but species. When I see this guy and the way he plays, what with his prominent brow ridge and brutish style of play, he seems positively homo neanderthalensis (or homo sapiens neanderthalensis)!

Am I being speciest?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:XK3s4GPX1pwEBM:http://nonicoclolasos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/rafael_nadal.jpg
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:40 pm
@InfraBlue,
This is the first time I've ever heard tennis characterized as "brutish".
ABE5177
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:45 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Pamela Rosa wrote:

Quote:
snood wrote:
I fancy myself as a fairly intelligent person, but I can't seem to come up with any reasons (that aren't unflattering of the 'bothered' people) for anyone being bothered by that.



Quote:
One of the main effects of illusory superiority in intelligence is the Downing effect. This describes the tendency of people with a below average intelligence quotient (IQ) to overestimate their intelligence, and of people with an above average IQ to underestimate their intelligence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority


That's very enlightening, Pamela rosa. But it still doesn't explain the phenomena of rancid pond scum like you being able to use a keyboard. Research that will you love, and get back to us.


why is this fool allowed to keep posting insults? moderators not on duty?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:21 pm
@DrewDad,
Well, I didn't characterize tennis as brutish, I characterized Nadal's style of play as brutish.

I don't mean it as an insult, either. He's exciting to watch.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 09:30 am
Quote:
NAACP seems comfortable with it.(the word "colored") Is it seeing a comeback?


I must have struck a nerve

Quote:
Mark Williams, the tea party leader who wrote a blog post this week calling the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) racist, has been "expelled" from the National Tea Party Federation.

Williams wrote the blog post on Thursday in response to the NAACP's Tuesday declaration accusing the tea party movement of tolerating racist elements in its midst (see The Upshot's rundown on the week of attacks and counterattacks here).

It was written as an imaginary letter to President Abraham Lincoln and accused the NAACP of being racist for using the word "colored" in its name. When some reacted to it in outrage, Williams deleted it from his website, declaring it time to "move forward."
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 11:44 am
Interesting article on rivalries in women's tennis had this about the Williams sisters and their importance to the game

Quote:
"It's a pity that it happens because a one-on-one sport does need very solid rivalries," Carillo said. "And in women's tennis, in the last couple of years, we've seen what we thought were going to be real (rivalries fade away).

"Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters at this time last year were retired. So I'm thankful that they decided to come back into the game. And I think one of the reasons they did come back is because they saw some real room at the top again."

Luckily for the sport, Serena and Venus Williams have been constants through the past decade, to provide a steady opponent for any outsider or for each other.

One or both of them has been present at the Wimbledon final in 10 of the last 11 championship matches, and Serena, who just beat Vera Zvonareva for her fourth Wimbledon final, had never beaten anyone but her sister in a Wimbledon final until this year.

"We should be thankful that we've had the Williams sisters," McEnroe said. "That was an incredible rivalry. However, it happened in the weirdest situation because it was between two sisters and it was unbelievably awkward for them as well as for people trying to call the match."
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jul, 2010 01:22 pm
@engineer,
yep
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2010 07:51 pm
@engineer,
Sibling rivalries are the most intense and can lead to blows for guys.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2010 07:57 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:

Sibling rivalries are the most intense and can lead to blows for guys.
no doubt we will make a law against that and it will go away, because that is how laws work right? At least that is what I keep hearing from the feminists.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2010 08:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
In the case of the Williams sisters I think it is just being catty like 'oh, she is mom's favorite or she gets everything!'
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 10:36 pm
Quote:
The match I'm watching between Serena and Sharapova is a good example.
No one has disputed that the generally the hot white chick is the favorite over a William sister.....do you have an opinion on this being racism or not?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2010 12:33 am
How Power Has Transformed Women’s Tennis
By MICHAEL KIMMELMAN
Published: August 25, 2010
Quote:

Contests between Venus and Serena, though improved in recent years, were for a long time understandable but notorious duds, anticlimaxes to major championships in which fans didn’t know whom to root for. Venus has been the player representative for the tour behind the scenes, but the sisters can sometimes give the impression, publicly, that they really aren’t all that interested in the game. At Wimbledon, they sent reporters back to earlier interviews rather than answer questions they didn’t want to answer, talking about soccer, outfits, meeting the queen, anything but tennis. And after Serena snapped at that foot-fault call, even insiders who sympathized said the incident conjured up a time when John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors made the men’s game seem nasty. If you couldn’t blame her, she still made it hard to take her side.
.
.

Since 2001, the Williams sisters have boycotted the tournament at Indian Wells, in California, one of the tour’s biggest events. Venus withdrew from the semifinals that year, and Serena was roundly booed afterward. Richard Williams, their father, claimed that he heard racist slurs. Despite being cajoled, fined, penalized and begged, they haven’t returned. They’re young, rich, profoundly gifted African-American women who operate as they wish, in a tennis world that’s still overwhelmingly white, conformist and reluctant to acknowledge that race is even an issue. The Indian Wells boycott, a matter of principle or a show of power or both, underscores the tour’s impotence. “The business is ultimately not sustainable on the backs of two players,” Allaster acknowledged at one point, finessing what Bud Collins later put more bluntly. The W.T.A., he said, is dependent on the Williams sisters even as it’s hopeful that new champions will come along to supplant them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29Tennis-t.html?pagewanted=5&hpw

This is pretty much what I have been saying, these girls are never going to be the darlings of women's tennis, and from the way they act there is no reason to think that they want to be. So there is no problem.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2010 08:19 am
@hawkeye10,
True, there is no problem, but your point brings us back to the original question or to state it another way, if almost all the players on the tour are similar to the Williams sisters, so why do some become "darlings of women's tennis"?

Let's look at Justine Henin who gets such glowing accolades at the start of your article. Henin dethroned Serena Williams and became number one. Of course she was well known in the US, but in Europe, she was a big deal with Belgium and France both claiming some ownership. At 5'6", she is presents a striking contrast to the larger players on the tour, has the best backhand in tennis and was racking up big numbers. Is this who you would like to represent women's tennis? I mean the press likes her even though... she cheats, looking for coaching from the stands. She demonstrates poor sportsmanship, once claiming a stomach injury with one game left in the Australian Open championship instead of letting her opponent finish the match out. (The Williams sisters are not the most sportsmanlike either.) From the number one position, carrying the banner of women's tennis, she quit the game for a couple of years significantly harming the tour. The Williams selectively manage their schedule, but they don't quit and they show at the big tournaments (with the exception of Indian Wells which we've discussed already). Of course, Henin is back now, but not in form, but everyone is cheering her comeback.

You mention the tall, blond and that typically means Sharapova. Sharapova also cheats, getting coaching during the match. Because she can't manage her schedule and plays everything in sight, she is often injured, missing big tournaments and doing harm to the tour. That doesn't stop her from endorsing everything in sight of course. You are correct that many people will see her on the court and cheer for the leggy blond but her versus Serena, I am pulling for Serena every time. Serena has never cheated. She is an athlete playing want to be models.

So why do players become the darlings of women's tennis? Davenport was well liked because of her philanthropy, her willingness to work with children, her accessibility to the fans, etc. and she put up big numbers on the court but she was never a darling. Was that because she wasn't particularly beautiful? Was it because she wasn't particularly controversial? Same with Clisters. Both Davenport and Clisters dropped from the tour, had children and came back. Does that spoil the image for some people? To quote from the same article you posted:
Quote:
This is a basic truth about the Williamses, held among professional watchers of the sport as well as players. Venus says it herself: “Serena and I did change the game, and it’s interesting to see people on court now trying to do all our moves. To be that person, the one who changed the game, wow, that’s too good to be true.”

Why don't such revolutionary figures get the love? Maybe it has nothing to do with race or beauty. Maybe we hate revolutionaries at heart.

The Williams sisters are as deserving of admiration from the press and the public as any player on the women's tour, probably more deserving than most. Your quote notes that Venus has been an unofficial player rep to the tour for years. Hopefully their independent streak, their willingness to tell the tour that they must balance the needs of the tour against the needs of the players will revolutionize the game, but with the disdain of the casual public, I think they will likely just be iconoclastic players and when they're gone the tour will go back to destroying young players in the quest for more money and more flash. The article you posted in interesting because it talks about how unusual it is that the power balance has shifted so that the Williams sisters have the ability to talk back to the tour. I think having a balance between the players and the tour is a good thing. The tour has demonstrated over the over that they do not take into account the needs of the players and are only focused on their bottom line. We need more players like the Williams sisters, but I doubt we'll see them anytime soon.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2010 09:13 am
@hawkeye10,
That was a pretty good article. Worth the full read rather than just the quotes we posted.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Aug, 2010 02:28 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Davenport was well liked because of her philanthropy, her willingness to work with children, her accessibility to the fans, etc. and she put up big numbers on the court but she was never a darling. Was that because she wasn't particularly beautiful?
What is required is either beauty or a spark that resonates..Davenport is not appealing visually or any other way,both her play and her life are boring. she did a poor job of building her brand and so she never sold all that well.

This article pointed something out to me....The sisters ARE perceived as being Amazon women, and I dont think that generally goes over well in America. We like our women to be either more feminine or if they are of athletic form to more aerobics than power lifting. I think it is much more the shape of their bodies that turns Americans off than it is the color of their skin. Much of the rest of the world however has a different taste in women, and we know that they sell much better overseas. Their personalities and their continuing to proclaim a lack of interest in the profession hurts them a lot as well, as does the fact that matches between them generally suck, so we dont get much return on our investment. It is a big rush when we have a tournament where the two best end up in the final, we look forward to it, we really get into it. When the sisters end up playing each other at the end it is more a "drats, not this again". We know that they don't want to play each other, because they have told us this often, and it is almost like their matches suck because they want them to suck. It makes it very hard to get behind either of them, and it is generally demoralizing. We feel that we have been cheated.

I think it was Snood who said early that continuing to talk about their "athleticism" is a racist slam....I dont think it is but I am starting to think that it is code for an insult. I'll grant that more black women are built like a brick house than are other races, but I dont think the insult is about race, I think it is about undesirable female form.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2010 12:09 pm
Nice article about Venus, how race has impacted her career and where she is today.

Quote:
She didn't have a ball or racket in hand, wasn't even near a tennis court, so it took a moment to recognize that one of the most important figures in the history of American sports had changed her game. Because Venus Williams, tennis player, wasn't talking about dogs or fashion; Venus Williams wasn't responding to the latest nonsense about her sister's foot or her father's mouth. No, she was talking about race now, about fighting hatred, about doing right when the easy choice is to do nothing.


Quote:
She was speaking about February 2009, when the UAE denied Peer a visa to play in its women's tournament, and defending men's champ Andy Roddick earned plaudits for pulling out of the men's draw in protest. Williams, in contrast, decided to play and took heat for that and won, but at the moment of truth -- before Arab royalty and plenty of others who agreed with Peer's absence -- she took the microphone during the trophy presentation and essentially called out the tournament and nation, called it, "a shame that one of our players couldn't be here."

Then in the ensuing press conference Williams called Peer "brave" and cited the inspiration of Wimbledon pioneer Althea Gibson and said that the situation, "made me think of all the people who gave something for me to be here. I am not here to rock the boat or upset anyone -- I'm just here to try to do what's right."

This year, the UAE relented and allowed Peer's presence, and Williams beat her in a match shunted to an outside court for supposed security reasons.

"She was always on my side and always stood up," Peer said after losing to Williams in their third-round match Sunday. "Doesn't matter if it was this year or the year before when I didn't get the visa, she stood up in that final and spoke for me. When we did play over there and we play on an outside court, she was very humble. So I think she's a very -- it's hard for me to say in it in English -- but she's always very support. She always feel for me, also. She understands what I feel."


Quote:
It was 1997. Venus crashed through the draw and was like nothing ever seen in tennis before: Beads in her hair, incredible wheels and reach, attitude to spare.

"I'm tall. I'm black. Everything's different about me," she said during the first week. "Just face the facts."

She couldn't have been more refreshing, and the media and TV networks and the Williamses all bought into the concept that tennis could, overnight, become post-racial, could deal with black and white issues without anyone getting hurt. But by fortnight's end, the racial cocktail had blown up in everyone's face; little involving the Williams family was said or done that didn't seem suspect. Venus and Romania's Irina Spirlea bumped into each other on a changeover during their semifinal showdown, and Spirlea grinned about it and later postured, "she thinks she's the ----ing Venus Williams!" Venus' dad, Richard, then called Spirlea a "big tall white turkey" and described in an interview racial incidents his family had experienced on tour. Venus watched her post-final press conference in the new Arthur Ashe Stadium -- what should have been a star-is-born celebration -- deteriorate into chaos.

"I don't want to answer that question," she said when asked about Richard's comments that Saturday.

"Are you disagreeing with your father then?" said a reporter. "He told that the bumping was a racist incident ... the whole attitude here: Racism. Are you disagreeing with that?"

"I think with this moment in the first year in Arthur Ashe Stadium, it all represents everyone being together, everyone having a chance to play," Venus said. "So I think this is definitely ruining the mood, these questions about racism ... "

"Your father didn't have to comment yesterday ... "
"You didn't have to bring it up."
"Yes I did, excuse me, who brought it up?"

It was, for everyone, awful to sit through and see. Venus seemed cornered, victimized by both her dad and the sport she loved, and from that moment on rarely engaged in the topic of being black and tall and different.
0 Replies
 
 

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