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Hilbert spaces ontology?

 
 
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 03:44 am
I wonder what the formal of quantum mechanics mean!
We know that Hilbert space is a type of complex vector space. What does this mean? It is all mathematics. A vector in such space is suppose to describe all there is to the object in question. Objects are not here, or there, but everywhere. This is known as non locality. I wonder if everything single thing is just a mathematical object.
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fresco
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 05:32 am
@TuringEquivalent,
All mathematical models have "existence" (ontological status) to the extent that they have a relationship with acts involving "prediction of measurements" (and note that the lowest level of measurement is "naming" or "counting one of"). The concept of "an object" is a red herring with respect to ontological questions because the name alone i.e "the public word" automatically implies ontological status without having to employ concepts of "objectivity".
ughaibu
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 10:01 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
All mathematical models have "existence" (ontological status) to the extent that they have a relationship with acts involving "prediction of measurements"
You seem to have missed Turing Equivalent's point. A Hilbert space has no generative phenomenal equivalent, our problem is understanding the nature of phenomena which are modeled by that to which we have no phenomenal equivalent.
fresco
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 10:19 am
@ughaibu,
If you mean "non-locality" eludes a Hilbert space model,fine, but as I understand it "non-locality" merely suggests a limit to the usage of such models, not their complete abandonment in predicting "reality" for certain levels of observation. Note that I am defining "reality" as functional, not absolute.
ughaibu
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 10:40 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
If you mean "non-locality" eludes a Hilbert space model. . . .
I dont; "a Hilbert space has no generative phenomenal equivalent".
thack45
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 11:19 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent wrote:

I wonder what the formal of quantum mechanics mean!
We know that Hilbert space is a type of complex vector space. What does this mean?
Sorry if this complicates your more intelligent questions, but lately I have been wondering what space is in general. Is it anything more than a vacuum? Does it have properties? Is there space outside of the known universe? Was there really no space when the universe was a singularity?
Quote:
It is all mathematics. A vector in such space is suppose to describe all there is to the object in question. Objects are not here, or there, but everywhere. This is known as non locality. I wonder if everything single thing is just a mathematical object.
Nonlocality, as I understand it, describes a direct and immediate interaction between objects at an arbitrary distance from one another. Also, as I understand it, an object will be an object regardless; mathmatics will describe the object's properties and it's change as it interacts with energy.
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fresco
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 12:04 pm
@ughaibu,
What do you mean ? They model phenomena insofar as they give rise to observations of data.
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gungasnake
 
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Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2010 12:22 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
There's no rational way to argue from the realm of metaphysics into the realm of real things. The most major such attempt in the middle ages was the so-called ontological proof of God's existence, which was debunked in the middle ages to everybody's satisfaction. The stuff we have along such lines is worse, including physics theories based on nothing more than thought experiments and wishful thinking. The worst of all such is "string theory(TM)", which is even stupider than evolutionism if that's possible.
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