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Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 09:00 pm
@jeeprs,
Dunno, jeeprs. We shall see how it actually works, I guess?

Me, I feel very saddened by the major shift to the right by both Labor & the Libs at the moment.
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 09:21 pm
@msolga,
why is it a 'shift to the right'? People keep saying that. I don't understand it. What would 'a shift to the left' be? Or centre? I don't really understand why this is right wing, I support the idea and I have never voted for the Libs.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:06 pm
@jeeprs,
It's a shift to the right because it is a more conservative option. A big shift to the right would sinking the boats.

You are right to be confused though, it's not really a right/left proposition except by association. Generally anything that is the product of small 'L' liberal thinking is considered left, and the opposite is right.

I was taught that fascism was extremely right and communism extremely left. But the real world proved that wrong (Communist China was/is extremely right wing to my way of thinking).

These days I say that the '**** you Jack' mindset is conservative/right wing, and the 'Fair Go' mindset is reformist/radical/leftist.

Perhaps an alternative way of delineating it is to say being right wing means that you think that the more a person is like you (nationality, ethnicity, creed) the more human they are, and the more left wing you are the more you believe we are all equally human. I think that fits with positions on refugees, capital punishment, bigotry, indigenous issues, sexism, etc.
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:16 pm
@hingehead,
but what would the 'left' option be? If offshore processing is the rightist option, the left option would be.... (make entry here).
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:17 pm
I think the Pacific solution off shore processing is morally poor but works a treat (at least in terms of perception, both here in Aus and in the eyes of refugees)
Whereas the alternative more accepting solution is much more humane, but fails dismally (again, even if only in terms of perception).
Ultimately it all boils down to the submarine dilemma that we all have to face eventually.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:25 pm
@jeeprs,
The most simplistically humane option would be to open our borders completely.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:30 pm
@jeeprs,
Hi Jeeprs - well left, like right is a continuum. A shift to the left would be stop the moratorium on Afghan and Tamil asylum seekers. A bigger shift to the left would be to remove limits on numbers of refugees accepted through formal channels. Somewhere in the middle would be processing claims a lot faster or allowing boat people into the community after health checks and processing their applications without holding them in detention.

Not that I'm advocating a particular approach (except that children should never be held in detention, or removed from their parents because their parents are in detention) I'm just against the kneejerk paranoia so easily triggered in the average Australian by a problem that is dwarfed by other problems we just ignore, like salination, and environmental degradation, climate change, alcohol abuse, obesity, and 18 month old babies with syphilis in indigenous communities, institutional mismanagement, the death of volunteerism, rife vacuous consumerism, et al.
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jul, 2010 10:35 pm
@hingehead,
fair enough. Good answer, thanks.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 03:18 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
...Perhaps an alternative way of delineating it is to say being right wing means that you think that the more a person is like you (nationality, ethnicity, creed) the more human they are, and the more left wing you are the more you believe we are all equally human. I think that fits with positions on refugees, capital punishment, bigotry, indigenous issues, sexism, etc.


That definition works for me, hinge.
In the current political climate.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 07:48 pm
A few quick updates:

The "Timor Solution" is by no means a down deal at this stage.:


Quote:
Growing opposition to 'Timor Solution'[/b]
By Sara Everingham in Dili
Updated 1 hour 32 minutes ago


East Timor's deputy prime minister, Jose Luis Guterres, says his country is "very unlikely" to accept the proposal. (Customs and Border Protection Service)

Prime Minister Julia Gillard's plan to send asylum seekers to a regional processing centre in East Timor is running into increasing opposition from the country's politicians.

East Timor's deputy prime minister, Jose Luis Guterres, says his country is "very unlikely" to accept the idea, which Ms Gillard announced at a press conference earlier this week.

Ms Gillard says she is yet to speak to East Timor's prime minister, Xanana Gusmao, who will have the final say on the decision.

The issue is expected to be top of the agenda when Mr Gusmao meets with president Jose Ramos-Horta in Dili today.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/08/2947723.htm
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 07:54 pm
@msolga,
Was the "Timor Solution" proposed without bothering to consult the government of East Timor? That seems more than a bit stupid.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 08:00 pm
No change on Labor's the internet filter plans, by the sound of things.
How incredibly disappointing.
I really believed a change of leadership might make a real difference here.
It must be a winner with some voters.
The "dark side of the net"? Honestly ... :


Quote:
PM vows to block 'dark side' of net
ARI SHARP
July 8, 2010


Gillard stands firm on web filter

JULIA Gillard says she is aware of public concerns over the mandatory internet filter interfering with ''legitimate use'' but has vowed to push ahead with the controversial proposal.

In her first comments on the filter since assuming the Labor leadership, Ms Gillard told ABC radio in Darwin yesterday that the proposal was an effort to control the ''dark side'' of communications technology.

''Images of child abuse, child pornography - they are not legal in our cinemas,'' the Prime Minister said.

''Why should you be able to see them on the internet? I think that's the kind of moral, ethical question at the heart of this.''

Ms Gillard indicated Communications Minister Stephen Conroy might tweak parts of the proposed filter before it was introduced.

''I understand that there's a set of … technical concerns about internet speed, and also concerns that somehow this accidentally doesn't move into taking away legitimate use of the internet,'' she said.

Vocal filter critic Mark Newton said the comments showed Ms Gillard was not going to use the change of leadership to moderate the party's position on the issue.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 08:17 pm
I can't locate the article now, but I do recall Julia Gillard saying that Labor could adopt some aspects of the Liberal's Climate change policy, not that long ago. And that Penny Wong was working on the policy details, to be released prior to the announcement of the election date, I'd presume ....:

Quote:
Gillard urged to spell out plan to tackle climate change
The Australian/July 08, 2010 11:04AM


PRESSURE is mounting on Julia Gillard to reveal her plans to tackle climate change after ruling out putting a price on carbon until 2012.

The opposition said today that the Prime Minister had no option but to adopt a form of the Coalition's direct-action policy and Greens leader Bob Brown said the government was “sitting on its hands”.

“I have already said I am holding to the decision that was announced by the Government that we will review in 2012 the nature of the community consensus in Australia about the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme,” Ms Gillard said on the ABC's Lateline program last night.

Ms Gillard has been recalibrating policy on a range of key issues, including the controversial mining tax and asylum-seekers.

Climate change remains one of the policy priorities she nominated in her first press conference as prime minister.


“It is as disappointing to me as it is to millions of Australians that we do not have a price on carbon,” she said.

“If elected as Prime Minister I will re-prosecute the case for a carbon price at home and abroad.”

Opposition environment spokesman Greg Hunt told The Australian Online today that the only option open to Ms Gillard was to adopt a form of the Coalition's policy.

“I think we are set for the government to adopt significant elements of the Coalition's policy, but in standard practice, to deny that they've done it,” he said.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/gillard-urged-to-spell-out-plan-to-tackle-climate-change/story-e6frg6xf-1225889327649
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 08:24 pm
Videos From Lateline which some of you might find interesting:

Quote:
* More asylum seekers on way to Christmas Island

*East Timor greets asylum proposal with scepticism

* Gillard defends East Timor plan


http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 09:22 pm
@realjohnboy,
It sounds as though Labor approached the head of state, RJB, & neglected to consult with the East Timorese government before making the announcement.
(Duh)
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 05:49 pm
Michelle Grattan's article from today's AGE newspaper. (Including a readers poll about whether there's been a "back flip" on asylum seekers policy or not.)

The last day has been interesting. With Julia insisting that there's been a misconception about "the East Timor solution". While the East Timorese, after initially rejecting the proposal (whether she meant to suggest it or not, are now saying they are willing to negotiate.

Me, I think that in the haste to resolve ALP policy positions & to get the election underway, that Julia is making a few mistakes. Maybe slowing down a bit would be a good idea?

Whatever happens, it will either be the ALP of the Libs in government. As disappointed as I am in Labor, the thought of Tony Abbott & co in government is absolutely unthinkable.

I'm interested, how do the rest of you think Julia is handling this interim PM/ALP leader period?:


Quote:
PM dares to win - or fall
July 9, 2010/the AGE

Prime Minister Julia Gillard is essentially gambling all for victory at the next election.

JULIA Gillard is dancing an election jig atop a tightrope. Her bold pitch on boat people shows how much she is willing to dare for the sake of votes. It has also raised wider issues of what she stands for, the way she goes about things, and even whether she will be up to the job.

The political question is how much these uncertainties about her will matter when the people come to make their choice. The substitution of Gillard for Kevin Rudd means that voters will be taking a leap of faith, whether they choose the PM or Tony Abbott. ...


http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/pm-dares-to-win--or-fall-20100708-10278.html
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 10:17 pm
@msolga,
I was a bit concerned about the whole East Timor idea, but listening again to what was said, it was not announced as a fait accompli. East Timor was mentioned as a possible location. I think everyone is a bit over-excited at the moment. The Joker is acting like the sky is falling, and the ABC is still delirious about breaking the news of the coup the other week, and wants some more.

Steady on, I say. Everyone count to ten.....
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2010 10:32 pm
@jeeprs,
also I reckon it ought be Port Moresby.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2010 01:37 am
@jeeprs,
I'm curious to know why you see Port Moresby as a more suitable option than East Timor, jeeprs. (but I think it will most likely end up being East Timor, anyway.)

But, in the meantime ... a very welcome back flip on yesterday's (I think?) announcement by Julia!

Surprised


Very Happy

Quote:
Conroy puts internet filter on backburner
Updated 43 minutes ago


The Federal Government has deferred the introduction of its mandatory internet filtering program.

Communications Minister Senator Stephen Conroy says the filter will not be put in place until an independent review can be carried out into what content would be banned.

The review, which Senator Conroy says is likely to take about a year, will look at what makes up "refused classification" rated content.

Senator Conroy says internet service providers Telstra, Optus and Primus have agreed to block websites known to contain child pornography in the meantime. ....<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/09/2949220.htm
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2010 05:38 am
From what I've seen it appears that Julia is standing firm on the filter while Conroy is the one backing down until at least after the election. HA! Yeah right. Let's just call it a win shall we?
 

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