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Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 03:36 am
@jeeprs,
... But to even pretend that it is anything like a real consultation with the broad community is quite another thing.
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:05 am
@msolga,
I guess. Let's see how it goes. I still reckon after all the Post Copenhagen Paralysis, she's looking pretty good:-)
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:09 am
@jeeprs,
I'm reserving my judgment until after the ALP's new refugee & climate change policies are published. Most likely during this week for both. Then the election date will be revealed pretty soon after ...
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:17 am
@msolga,
Can I join by Internet ? Would be interesting. Maybe someone can tell Uz in Old Holland what to do with 25.000 (estamate) refugees and so on who come to our small country yearly ?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:29 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Which countries are they (mainly) coming from, Pepi?
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:32 am
@msolga,
All countries with war, starvation, plagues and bad government. Soon our comrades from the USA and GB will come to Europe !
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:34 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
And you'll have one big party in the Netherlands!
Everyone will be there!
Very good of you to be so obliging! Very Happy
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:35 am
@msolga,
Yust wait till we beat Germany in the World Cup Soccer in the land of Apartheid...
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 04:38 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Yes, I'm hearing such an outcome is very possible. Nimh must be beside himself! (Have you met nimh (on A2K) yet? A fellow country man of yours.Sharp as a tack! Smart cookie! Smile )
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 06:39 am
@jeeprs,
You know, jeeprs, I just keep thinking ... how hard would it be to explain to Australian voters that asylum seekers are a tiny proportion of the huge population growth we are currently experiencing here in Oz? Compared to the migrants who arrive by plane. Compared to the many who over-stay their visas. Compared to the thousands of student who came here to study & ended up staying on ... And that we are signatories to a UN convention to protect these people who are fleeing persecution & wars ...
How hard would it be for those sorts of truths to be presented to the Australian people? I don't hear anyone much but the Greens & a few principled individual parliamentarians even mention these things these days.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 06:53 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

You know, jeeprs, I just keep thinking ... how hard would it be to explain to Australian voters that asylum seekers are a tiny proportion of the huge population growth we are currently experiencing here in Oz? Compared to the migrants who arrive by plane. Compared to the many who over-stay their visas. Compared to the thousands of student who came here to study & ended up staying on ... And that we are signatories to a UN convention to protect these people who are fleeing persecution & wars ...
How hard would it be for those sorts of truths to be presented to the Australian people? I don't hear anyone much but the Greens & a few principled individual parliamentarians even mention these things these days.


And decent media.

But it's a disgrace.

I guess people are naturally a bit xenophobic and fearful of being over-run.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:00 am
@dlowan,
Flashbacks to the old "yellow peril" days ... the "seething masses from the north" days.

It's terrible.
I feel quite ashamed of us.
But politicians, our government & our representatives, have a big responsibility in educating the public, too. Governments shouldn't just accommodate prejudice & ignorance.
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:05 am
@dlowan,
I find it a hard thing to deal with. I think, of course, that every person should be dealt with humanely. I also recognise the actual numbers are minute and everyone is over-reacting dreadfully. Pepijn points out that Netherlands gets 10's of thousands of illegals. On the other hand, once people arrive, it is often impossible to repatriate them, because of the dreadful state of their home country. How many displaced people would jump at the chance to live in Australia? I agree that action has to be taken to prevent the flow of illegal migrants. Apart from anything else, it is unfair to those who apply through the normal means. But I don't know what action. I think all the tough talk from the Libs is fundamentally delusional. You could only dissuade people from coming if you were positively inhuman to them. Most of them come from circumstances which make an Australian detention centre look like a viable option.

All I know is, this issue is not going away anytime soon, anywhere in the world. Europe has major integration issues with immigrant populations. And the US. Ultimately, the only way to solve it is through trade, aid, and development. If whole countries fail, or whole populations are displaced, the world is going to be facing some awfully tough choices.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:24 am
@jeeprs,
Quote:
I think all the tough talk from the Libs is fundamentally delusional.


I think all the scare mongering about asylum seekers from the Libs is crude & shameless opportunism, pure & simple.
And as for Labor, I think there are ways of turning public opinion around, if you're heart's in it.

Quote:
All I know is, this issue is not going away anytime soon, anywhere in the world. Europe has major integration issues with immigrant populations. And the US. Ultimately, the only way to solve it is through trade, aid, and development. If whole countries fail, or whole populations are displaced, the world is going to be facing some awfully tough choices.


I think it would definitely help if some of us stopped invading countries for no good reason at all, causing waves of refugees to flee & seek refuge in our own countries. Are we to be surprised or put out at the refugees from Iraq & Afghanistan?

If only a small proportion of what we & other countries spend on making war was instead spent on developmental aid, we could remove to many of the reasons people desert or flee those countries.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:41 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Border fears doesn't equal racism: Gillard
Updated 2 hours 48 minutes ago

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200911/r468118_2330808.jpg
Human rights lawyer Julian Burnside QC says for every one asylum seeker there are 20 new permanent immigrants to Australia. (Reuters: Vivek Prakash)

Prime Minister Julia Gillard says political correctness is hindering the debate about asylum seekers. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/04/2944329.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 06:43 pm
@msolga,
A quick update from the ABC.

My local ABC radio (774) has been running hot with callers on this issue. Many of them outraged, because Jon Faine (morning program host) gave Pauline Hanson air time to state the "other" side of the case, in the interests of open debate. I don't think she persuaded many. Wink Just heard Bob Brown (Greens leader). Clear, concise, intelligent, compassionate as always. (My hero! Very Happy Wink )
I dare not venture over to 3AW (the ABC's commercial radio rival) to see what going on over there!
Julia wanted discussion & she's certainly getting it!:


Quote:
Call for calm as Gillard rethinks asylum laws
Posted 13 minutes ago

Human rights groups are calling on Prime Minister Julia Gillard to consider Australia's international obligations as she prepares to tighten border protection laws.

Ms Gillard is expected to take a tougher approach to border protection when she announces her policy on asylum seekers this week. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/05/2944693.htm
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:15 pm
@msolga,
Thanks for the update, msolga, on the asylum/immigration debate in Aus.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jul, 2010 07:32 pm
@realjohnboy,
I wish I could say it's my pleasure to keep you updated (& that we're having this "dialogue" at all) RJB! Wink

I expect that the new refugee policy is pretty much decided. I mean, such things don't happen in a day or 2 (following public consultation), do they?

Ah well ...
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 03:04 am
@msolga,
Well, this would hardly be news, would it? Wink

Quote:
Gillard's asylum stance 'risks losing votes to Greens'
Posted 17 minutes ago

There are mixed views from within the Labor Party on Prime Minister Julia Gillard's call for an open debate on asylum seekers. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/05/2945309.htm
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 05:27 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Well, open debate on asylum seekers. ...<'.'>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/05/2945309.htm
[/quote]
0 Replies
 
 

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