4
   

Oz Election Thread #4 - Gillard's Labor

 
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 02:58 pm
@dadpad,
Quote:
One reason would be financial budgeting.
any others?


Well in the old days it was because your party sold an ideology and set up a policy platform that followed through on that ideology and there is so much grey in human activity that drawing lines is difficult for us to do individually, let alone as a group. So rather than obsessing over the detail of every line of proposed legislation you just did what ever the party 'brains' said you should. Which does actually make 'a division of labour' sense - if you trust the party brains. You are all fed the same response to tricky questions so there is the appearance of solidarity. And it's a way of delivering on the mandate to which the party was elected, but, as the last election has shown, do we vote for a party or a representative? No doubt that's grey too....

Some issues are obvious conscience votes (abortion for example - I can't imagine any party short of small extreme groups having a strictly anti stance). Others aren't so obvious. I'm with dad, in an ideal world (and I think I posted this a few pages back) every vote should be a conscience vote. Sadly I don't think it's all that practical. And I think in that situation lobbyists would run amok, American stylee..
Deckland
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 12:38 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

I'm pretty happy with his decision Deckland. At least it kills speculation about a pay off.

The Coalition already considers he has been paid off with the negotiated deal.
Might as well go the whole hog and be responsible for implementing his wish list.

Deckland
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 12:54 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

The interesting thing for me (from your Insiders link) was the discussion about the Coalition's line about Labor not have the "legitimacy" to form government, which is being obligingly parroted by so many of our so-called political reporters. The assertion being that the Coalition actually "won" the vote & was robbed of government.

That is the crux of the matter. The coalition who represent the bulk of the landed gentry and business people, do really think they have the god given right to rule. The class distinction from old England is alive and well me thinks. House of Lords, House of Commons and all that stuff.
Am I being cynical ? Perhaps.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 03:36 pm
@Deckland,
Quote:
The Coalition already considers he has been paid off with the negotiated deal.


And seem really pissed off they couldn't manage a better deal. Ron Boswell said on radio that Warren Truss had assured him 'their package was huge' Razz
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 03:37 pm
@Deckland,
Quote:
Am I being cynical ? Perhaps.


Perhaps but I ponder this too.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 07:12 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Some issues are obvious conscience votes (abortion for example - I can't imagine any party short of small extreme groups having a strictly anti stance). Others aren't so obvious. I'm with dad, in an ideal world (and I think I posted this a few pages back) every vote should be a conscience vote. Sadly I don't think it's all that practical. And I think in that situation lobbyists would run amok, American stylee..


Yes, I understand what you're saying about practicality, hinge.

(Thinking a bit more about this ..) Perhaps my concerns are more to do with my "party of choice" not adhering to its espoused principles when it comes to policies in government? You just can't be sure you'll get what you voted for.

Agreed on conscience votes, though it would certainly help to know where your local candidates stand on such "conscience issues" before you vote for them.

But I guess, more than anything else, my real gripe is more to do with being in an eternally "safe" Labor seat. (Even though we have a perfectly OK local representative in federal parliament. At the state level we get Labor duds & hacks, rewarded for past services to the party, I guess? Neutral )
What I'd be most interested in is for my seat (& other safe seats, too) to actually count when it comes to budget spending by both the federal & state governments. I am sick & tired of us being ignored & neglected by both the 2 major parties, because we are so safe Labor. I'm sick & tired of our local parliamentary representatives having no impact at all, locally . Whether freeing up how they are able to vote would make any difference, I don't know. I kinda doubt it. Some of the most neglected electorates in my state (in the west & the north of Melbourne, especially) are "safe" Labor seats. Interestingly, some of them are "turning Green". Perhaps that's the answer? Inject a bit of real competition?


hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 07:54 pm
@msolga,
I know where you're coming from, but having grown up in Werriwa (Gough! Latham!) didn't quite feel the same level of frustration, and you've put your finger on it. Green is the only option for disaffected Labor voters, Brandt and Wilkie bear witness to that.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:03 pm
@hingehead,
Yep, a viable third party (if it actually eventuates. Fingers crossed) would be the best thing for us eternal "neglecteds" , hinge. Break the deadlock of the big two! Make it a real contest!

Bob Hawke was installed as my local member for a bit there. He wasn't from these parts & we never saw him. Bob who?

Quote:
(Gough! Latham!)


Well you certainly lived in exciting times! Never a dull moment. Smile



0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:17 pm
I'm a bit shocked that Abbott's current openly stated priority is to convince the indies to change sides and make him Prime Minister.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:19 pm
Hmmm ..
Perhaps it's time for Tony Abbott & the Nationals to call off their dogs & simply accepted the election result? This is hardly "kinder, fairer" stuff.
This sort of situation is unacceptable. :


Quote:
Oakeshott cancels public meeting after threats
Updated 2 hours 10 minutes ago

Australian Federal Police are investigating threats made against Independent MP Rob Oakeshott ahead of a planned public meeting at Port Macquarie on the New South Wales mid-north coast. ..<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/15/3012097.htm
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:25 pm
@Eorl,
You're not really shocked are you Eorl? Or are you just shocked that he stated it openly? That is a bit unexpected.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:29 pm
@Eorl,
Yes, I just heard that, Eorl
Of course, the independents (& the Greens) can vote anyway they choose, on any proposed legislation by the government.
But to think this could lead to a change of government is wishful thinking ...
It all boils down to the "legitimacy" of this government, by those who haven't accepted the outcome, doesn't it?

This sort of attitude, along with the Australian's persistent anti-Greens campaign, is becoming pretty concerning. All designed to destabilize the government & bring about an early election, no doubt.


hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:49 pm
@msolga,
Why don't we all close our eyes, hold hands, and imagine what Rupert wants us to think?

WWRD?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 08:57 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Why don't we all close our eyes, hold hands, and imagine what Rupert wants us to think?


Or why don't we remind Rupert that he is no longer an Australian citizen (having renounced his citizenship in the interests of pursuing his US investment opportunities) & to just **** off & stop meddling in our business? Perhaps taking The Australian with him at the same time!

What does WWRD mean? You'll have to enlighten me.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 09:42 pm
Surprised? I am. :

Quote:
Oakeshott prepared to run for Speaker role
Updated 4 minutes ago

Independent MP Rob Oakeshott will put his hand up for role of Speaker in the new Parliament. ..<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/15/3012488.htm
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 10:42 pm
@msolga,
Shocked. I wonder how many casting votes he'll get?

I love the oakester but can't help suggesting that Speaker is attractive because there are no time limits on it! Wink

WWRD

(very american, apparently nutbags were cheap bracelets with WWJD on them 'What Would Jesus Do'. The daily show last night had WWMD, what would Mohammed Do? - Thus I was inspired.)
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 10:50 pm
@hingehead,
I'm rather shocked myself, hinge. How can he possibly pursue his stated objectives in parliament as speaker?

Quote:
I love the oakester but can't help suggesting that Speaker is attractive because there are no time limits on it! Wink


There is that aspect to it! Wink

(Did you read my post about his canceled meeting, as a result of death threats (above)? Perhaps he's responding to the extreme pressure he's been under? )

Thank you for explaining WWRD.
Now I'm in the know! Smile
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Sep, 2010 10:51 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
I wonder how many casting votes he'll get?


I'd reckon he'd get quite a few Coalition votes! Wink
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 12:34 am
I think there are reforms afoot that allow the speaker to vote on the critical (government forming) matters.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 12:35 am
@Eorl,
That's interesting, Eorl.
Can you tell us any more?
 

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