I Think Therefore I'm Not...?

@A Lyn Fei,

A Lyn Fei wrote:

What level of thought must one achieve in order to be? Do you know of someone who, perhaps, doesn't do a lot of thinking? Maybe who speaks without thought behind their words? Maybe who just smiles and nods with a blank stare? Can these people be?

Yes, there are psycotic obsessive compulsive people in old PF.com who migrated here, that has extremely low rationallity, resulting in endless babble and raving.

1 Reply

@A Lyn Fei,

A Lyn Fei wrote:

What level of thought must one achieve in order to be? Do you know of someone who, perhaps, doesn't do a lot of thinking? Maybe who speaks without thought behind their words? Maybe who just smiles and nods with a blank stare? Can these people be?

Hi Lyn Fei! I agree with what some of the others said. What I'm thinking about it right now comes from my experience of today. I work in intensive care. We don't want our patients to reach a high state of awareness. We don't want them to remember what happened today. I guess you'd say we don't want this time to exist for them. And that's out of just pure compassion except for consideration of how they couldn't physically handle the stress of being today.

But they most definitely exist for me. I have the memory of a person opening eyes and looking directly at me after days or weeks of 'not being' and maybe in a state where any further life is questionable. It makes me happy, only to be topped by walking in a week or so later to see them sitting up with a sippy cup in hand.

So if we're socializing creatures... to some extent we exist for and in each other. So your mom maybe looked at you at one point and you existed to her. She held your future 'being' in her mind. Looked forward to more interaction with you. BTW I'm reading some Descartes right now... maybe more discussion on that later?

1 Reply

@A Lyn Fei,

A Lyn Fei wrote:

Owen phil wrote:

I think therefore I am not, is contradictory.

(x exists) if and only if (there is a property that x has).
(x does not exist) if and only if (there is no property that x has).

I think therefore I am, is logically true.
ie. (I have the property of thinking) implies (I have some property).
I pee therefore I am, is also logically true.
...If I have any property then I exist...

If (there is a property that x has) then (there is no property that x has), is contradictory.

(I have the property of thinking) implies (I have no property), is a contradiction.

Quote:
To be honest, it was a typo on my part. I meant to write "I don't think, therefore I'm not". I do apologize and feel quite silly for not catching this before the editing limit expired.

what animal doesn't think at least to some extent even if their not aware that they do ?

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@HexHammer,

Hi Hex,
It takes one to know one.
All the best, my friend.
Mark...

1 Reply

Quote:

To be honest, it was a typo on my part. I meant to write "I don't think, therefore I'm not". I do apologize and feel quite silly for not catching this before the editing limit expired.

pay attention to your thinking

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@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

It takes one to know one.

Aaah, therefore all crime scene investigators and profilers are utterly psycotic? ..no?
Please don't speak like a child.

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

Hi Hex,
Please don't speak like a psychologist, people may mistake you for being one. Psychosis involves these principles, in order to be distinguishable fron neurosis - 1) The whole (not part) of the personality is involved. 2) Contact with reality is lost (not maintained): hallucinations and delusions represent the inability to distinguish between subjective experience and external reality. 3) The psychotic lacks (not has) insight. 4) Neurotic symptoms/behaviour are discontinuous with 'normal symptoms/behaviour (i.e. there is a qualitative difference. 5) There is usually no precipitating cause. 6) The psychotic disturbance is not related to the premorbid personality.
Have a good day hex.
Mark...

1 Reply

@mark noble,

Thanks for responding Mark.
If anything exists, you exist. So, if you exist, everything exists? Somehow I am still convinced it is all a grand illusion, but this may be an emotional reaction to my inability to explain the essence of life.
I am only human, after all (as my typo so nicely illuminates).

A Lyn

1 Reply

@Arjuna,

Thank you for the excellent post. These people do not exist for themselves when they are in pain (on a conscious level), yet they exist for you because you are conscious of them. This is what I gather.
My actual opinion on this whole thing is that we enter in and out of "being". At times we carry out our days robotically and instinctually, and other times we are quite aware of each and every action and word that we make. Now I'm wondering why we are so aware at certain times and not at others.
But, yes, I would love to discuss Descartes. I have many problems with what he says, but I do think him brilliant nonetheless.

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@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Please don't speak like a psychologist, people may mistake you for being one. Psychosis involves these principles, in order to be distinguishable fron neurosis - 1) The whole (not part) of the personality is involved. 2) Contact with reality is lost (not maintained): hallucinations and delusions represent the inability to distinguish between subjective experience and external reality. 3) The psychotic lacks (not has) insight. 4) Neurotic symptoms/behaviour are discontinuous with 'normal symptoms/behaviour (i.e. there is a qualitative difference. 5) There is usually no precipitating cause. 6) The psychotic disturbance is not related to the premorbid personality.

And you are telling me ..because?

1 Reply

@A Lyn Fei,

Hi A Lyn,
Of course. If I don't exist - Nothing does, at least not to me (non-me, rather). The only reason everything exists is because I exist. I can't possibly not exist, not as me, you, or anyone or anything.
I may well get to this one day if people start to perceive beyond what they can measure (or imaginatively measure). But, like you say - We are only human, after all......Sometimes, anyway.
xxx
Mark...

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

Hi Hex,
Because you refer to others as psychotic (psycotic, in your words), and unfairly at that.
Peace to you my northern friend.
Mark...

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Hi A Lyn,
Of course. If I don't exist - Nothing does, at least not to me (non-me, rather). The only reason everything exists is because I exist. I can't possibly not exist, not as me, you, or anyone or anything.
I may well get to this one day if people start to perceive beyond what they can measure (or imaginatively measure). But, like you say - We are only human, after all......Sometimes, anyway.
xxx
Mark...

I agree completely. On a different thread, Does Nothing Exist, I quote you as saying
"If "Nothing" did exist, it would cancel out "Everything" or "Every thing". In the future "Nothing" can never exist, for it would illiminate the history of that that came prior to it. Once there has been "something" there can never be "Nothing". The "Something" has been (Here and now). Therefore, even as mere historic residue, If "Something has existed, it, forever, prevents "Nothing" from existing."

If everything exists because you exist, will you ever not exist?

Your thoughts are always appreciated.

A Lyn

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Because you refer to others as psychotic (psycotic, in your words), and unfairly at that.

I tresure that you enlighten me of my ignorence, I will in the future be more specific.

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@A Lyn Fei,

Hi A Lyn,
As I see it "Everything" is one thing. But in many parts. Each part is essential to the whole. If any given part ceases to exist - The whole ceases to exist.
I am one part of the whole - I have no delusions as to the fact that I will live and die, or that my sentience will cease upon death. The earth will keep turning, the sun will burn out, the universe will eventually be reduced to no more than its base ingredients, but, I believe that all things will re-occur, an infinite amount of times, both similarly and dissimilarly. When, if I'm correct, my sentience is reignited, I will not be aware of A) The period of non-sentience. B) Anything I was not aware of as a prior version of me.

If I am incorrect, none of it matters, and it wont affect me because I wont exist ever again. This doesn't bother me either, but if I can't use my imagination to explore the potential possibilities, I might as well just spend the rest of my life amusing myself to death.

Hex is gonna get a kick out of this one.

xxx
Mark...

2 Replies

@A Lyn Fei,

Everyone has thoughts behind their words, its their awareness of these thoughts, or maybe their lack of awareness, that plays the crucial role.

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@mark noble,

AND!!! ...I think I know whom you are talking about, and you should add "also" neurotic, I have extensivly PM'ed this guy, and tryed to screw his head on right.

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@mark noble,

Good evening, Mark

After a long day at work, my brian is in full creative mode. Our ideas about life are so very similar. I have the same beliefs about the infinite, of which I believe you might have been aware. The piece of the puzzle I cannot solve is why my conscious mind exists at this exact time as though time is linear. Part of me believes that the mind is able to travel between these infinite lifetimes and sort through things subconsciously via observation.

This may be my current state of mind speaking.

A Lyn

2 Replies

@A Lyn Fei,

Hi A Lyn.
Me Too, but not whilst I am alive in this host. This might sound a tad off-the-wall, but I am you and you are me, but not at the same time - This goes for everyone and everything. No two things exist in the same universe - They only appear to from the host mindset. Every thing is in a universe of its own - all universes are touching each other (like the layers of an onion). I'm going to bed now. I've been absorbing idiocy from Setanta and co for most of my evening. So don't read to much into this post, I'm tired - but don't want to erase it.
Have a truly magnificent day A Lyn, and may all of what is truly lovely fall to the ground at your feet.
xxx
Mark...

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@A Lyn Fei,

oh, and your mind is trapped by life, your life - It'll move on when you're dead, or back to a point where you last experienced deja vu ....................another story.

Goodnight
xxx
Mark...

1 Reply

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