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A Failure To Convince Me That Any Gods Exist

 
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:38 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

So I suppose in order to disbelieve God you have a definition of what a GOD is supposed to be and to be not...unless of course you believe nothing exists...no Reality !!! Rolling Eyes

I do not have to work to disbelieve in any god. I have no imperative to defend my skepticism. No presentation for any gods have been convincing. Be them numerous and diverse or singular.

I do not have to subscribe to nothingness as an atheist. Atheism is NOT the belief in "nothing," but rather the belief in a natural universe.

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failures art
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:42 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
The alien stuff is the most relevant thing in the video. To discard it would be to miss the point of stepping away from our little and insignificant lives.

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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:42 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

So I suppose in order to disbelieve God you have a definition of what a GOD is supposed to be and to be not...unless of course you believe nothing exists...no Reality !!! Rolling Eyes

I do not have to work to disbelieve in any god. I have no imperative to defend my skepticism. No presentation for any gods have been convincing. Be them numerous and diverse or singular.

I do not have to subscribe to nothingness as an atheist. Atheism is NOT the belief in "nothing," but rather the belief in a natural universe.

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This is very much a problem on how you define God, concept and language, since I believe in the same you do...
(...take it one step further and you are left with nothing or Absoluteness...)
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:44 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

The alien stuff is the most relevant thing in the video. To discard it would be to miss the point of stepping away from our little and insignificant lives.

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I was referring in relation to the OP, to the heart of the matter...obviously I am very interested in the question itself of Aliens being out there...(for starters I don´t feel like being extinct...thankfully its not statistically probable !)
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:49 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I have no need to define any gods.

If I invented a word for a thing "ryzher" and asked you if you believed in it, would you? If you're sensible, you wouldn't.

If I then asked you to define the ryzher you don't believe in, would you? when you begin to understand (1) why you would not, and (2) why you could not do this, you'll understand why I have no need to define any gods.

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Ryzher
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failures art
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:50 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I am the OP. The video isn't convincing that any gods exist.

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0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 09:55 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I have no need to define any gods.

If I invented a word for a thing "ryzher" and asked you if you believed in it, would you? If you're sensible, you wouldn't.

If I then asked you to define the ryzher you don't believe in, would you? when you begin to understand (1) why you would not, and (2) why you could not do this, you'll understand why I have no need to define any gods.

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Obviously this don´t make any sense since the problem is not in inventing words but in the meaning you give them...
To disbelief something you must define what it should be...
..if it is nothing there is nothing to believe or disbelieve...

Now I think you start the thread with a positive judgement...(on what is or what is not)

So I ask you again, What what, is or is not ???
failures art
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:00 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
There is no such thing a s proof of the negative. In other words, I don't have to make any assertion at all to not believe in something. My belief should not be stated as not believing in a god (a negative proof is requisite to meet a intellectual burden), but rather that I believe in a natural universe (a positive proof is requisite to meet a intellectual burden.

Certainly you do not need to define and prove all of the gods you do not believe in. Their numbers alone are infinite.

By the way, I disagree. Making up a word for an imaginary thing and defining a god are not unlike each other.

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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:06 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

There is no such thing a s proof of the negative. In other words, I don't have to make any assertion at all to not believe in something. My belief should not be stated as not believing in a god (a negative proof is requisite to meet a intellectual burden), but rather that I believe in a natural universe (a positive proof is requisite to meet a intellectual burden.

Certainly you do not need to define and prove all of the gods you do not believe in. Their numbers alone are infinite.

By the way, I disagree. Making up a word for an imaginary thing and defining a god are not unlike each other.

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Look again...you said you don´t believe in any Gods, correct ?
your not believing refers correct ?
Just to what it refers if it is nothing ?
Give me the blueprint of what should be that is not to be believed...
failures art
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I believe in a natural universe and nature is indifferent. No design, fate, or universal importance, just nature.

I cannot make this any more simple.

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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:10 pm
Your initial sentence it is not neutral...unless you mean you don´t believe neither disbelief in God...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:12 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I believe in a natural universe and nature is indifferent. No design, fate, or universal importance, just nature.

I cannot make this any more simple.

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OK...faire n´square...I agree with you in every detail...natural world of course. Is there something not natural ???
Now you fail to explain why God should not be neutral...
God is sheer UNITY !

Post scriptum : ...a small detail I believe in fate, but that´s an entire different issue...(hard determinism and Causal Completeness defender, an impossible job I admit !)
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 10:41 pm
Mathematically speaking, " A failure to convince me that any God exists " is a proposal against the Infinite...What do you think on that ? I wonder...
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:13 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
That is not a mathematical statement. It's not even a proposal. It's stating that I have been unconvinced that any god or gods exist.

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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:19 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

That is not a mathematical statement. It's not even a proposal. It's stating that I have been unconvinced that any god or gods exist.

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I am starting to believe that you must feel mentally tired right now...what´s the extension of the word "any" to you ?
0 Replies
 
laughoutlood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:25 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
A Failure To Convince Me That Any Gods Exist


Your failures include the art of self hypnosis.

And yet Fil seems to be full of it.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:31 pm
@laughoutlood,
laughoutlood wrote:

Quote:
A Failure To Convince Me That Any Gods Exist


Your failures include the art of self hypnosis.

And yet Fil seems to be full of it.


Of what ???
Its actually quite simple what I am saying...
A definition of God must n´t be the classical one...in fact it should be the most possibly open...
My one is quite easy to catch. Absoluteness against the impossibility of Nothingness !

(for instance mind the fact that even the so called open void of space has the property´s of allowing the presence of objects in it and their movement...quite diferent from nothingness don´t you think ?)
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:42 pm
My own definition of God would be, and this is also probably reductive, God is Information ! No beginning, no end, no creation no creator, forget the design, etc etc... Just sheer Unity ! ONE, and zero as a shadow...(not a true zero) Binary code...One true dimension, not eleven...(the other dimension are simulations...) Simplify, simplify simplify !...
jeeprs
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:45 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Dreyfus' opinion was fairly accurate, but it was based on the 1960's view of reverse engineering the human mind to create AI. This approach has been long replaced by those making break-throughs in AI.


No way. Dreyfus was mocked and ridiculed when he first came out with his critique of AI, everyone thought his objections were preposterous. But it has been borne out by everything that happened subsequently, over the course of nearly four decades of research. Artificial intelligence (and artificial life, for that matter) are scientific fantasies. There are plenty of vital and urgent things that science needs to work on other than such useless vanity projects. Like stopping the planet from cooking, for a start.

There is something that all of the people who treat science as a religion need to understand. The nature of the atom is still a mystery. Yet the atom is supposed to be the most fundamental and basic thing in the universe. We have had to build the most expensive apparatus in the history of the world to come up with a finalised description of the atom, and it is still an open question as to whether this will succeed.

So if it is so hard to describe the workings of an atom, why are you so confident that we can model the workings of the most complex single object in the known universe, namely, the human brain?
Krumple
 
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Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2010 11:47 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:
Its actually quite simple what I am saying...
A definition of God must n´t be the classical one...in fact it should be the most possibly open...


Most possibly open? What the does that even mean?
 

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