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SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGAL...?

 
 
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 09:19 am
Should it be illegal to grow and use cannabis?
I can grow a variety of the most poisonous plants on the planet, and consume them at my leisure (I don't, by the way - consume them), but I risk imprisonment if I do so with cannabis.

Why is anyone denied the right to grow and consume whatever they choose to, as long as it doesn't affect others?

All your replies are gratefully welcome.
Thank you.
Mark...
 
A Lyn Fei
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 10:09 am
@mark noble,
We most likely see eye to eye on this one. Cannabis was never made illegal to "protect the people", it was a political and economic move. As this is a personal issue for many Americans, I will tell personally that I am extremely opposed to consuming cannabis. However, that is my personal choice and I love this country for letting me have the power to make that decision for myself. I would never want anyone to force an ideal upon me the way that the law forces a political opinion upon cannabis users. To me, there is no good reason to deny the right to grow and consume it.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 10:20 am
@mark noble,
Sure. But I don't think that will solve the whole drug war condition we live with.
mark noble
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 11:34 am
@ossobuco,
Ho Osso,
What would the implications be if cannabis were made legal? Here in the UK they declassify and reclassify every few years or so, and the stats don't appear to change.
Thank you, Osso.
Have a fantastic evening.
Mark...
mark noble
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 11:36 am
@A Lyn Fei,
Hi A Lyn,
Again (as per) I find myself in complete agreement with you.
Best wishes A Lyn.
Mark...
vikorr
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 04:12 pm
@mark noble,
One of the problems with Cannabis is that it can trigger schizophrenia/psychotic rages in some people. http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/cannabis.htm
Apart from that article, I've seen two brothers who were fine, one until he started doing marijuana and then started having psychotic rages, and the other who was fine until two years later he started doing marijuana, and started having psychotic rages.

In others it appears to fry their brains.

In many it has little to short term effect.

British studies are showing (now that there is data on long term effect) that it does more lung damage than cigarettes http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6923642.stm
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 04:41 pm
@mark noble,
I think the implications might be complex. I don't use marijuana, though I did a bit in my twenties, and I might like to for medical reasons at some point in my future (watch for some osso cooking thread on brownies in, oh, 2020) - but I am not against its legalization at all, have long been for that.

However, my last home town was in Humboldt County in California, famed near and far for hidden mj production. In fact, when I first moved up there, I was driving through the forest on highway 101 and the radio station announcer warned locals about (police) helicopter(s) coming. Oooh! Anyway, there, culture is a culture! I still glance online at the local papers once in a while, and I noticed consternation and then some relaxation about the near sure change to legality, with much back and forth on local issues related to that that I wasn't driven to read more about.

I do know the area was dealing (heh) with an influx of thug like cartel types, as are other forest areas in California, whereas the Humboldt area producers had heretofore been locals of less scary description. Of course, the cartel types have other stuff to distribute, mj probably the least "valuable" of their products. Whether they would stop production in the event of legalization - I'm not very confident they would.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  5  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:01 pm
@vikorr,
Seems to be able to trigger psychosis, for sure.

And I don't think it does brains or lungs any good at all.

The question for me is what community response does least harm?

I don't think attempts at prohibition have worked at all. We have criminalization of people who would otherwise not touch the criminal justice system, corruption of law enforcement authorities, just as two negative consequences, with no evidence of as far as I know that it stops anyone from using.

Seems to me governments can rationally go two ways:

Legalize and make lots of money (as with tobacco and alcohol), some of which goes to attempt to remediate some of the harmful effects of the drug.

Decriminalize, either fully, or to some degree.

My state government has kind of decriminalized....possession of marijuana up to, (I think, currently) two plants....it's treated like a traffic offence...on the spot fine.

More than that is treated as trafficking and you get charged with a criminal offence.

Krumple
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:10 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Seems to be able to trigger psychosis, for sure.

And I don't think it does brains or lungs any good at all.

The question for me is what community response does least harm?

I don't think attempts at prohibition have worked at all. We have criminalization of people who would otherwise not touch the criminal justice system, corruption of law enforcement authorities, just as two negative consequences, with no evidence of as far as I know that it stops anyone from using.

Seems to me governments can rationally go two ways:

Legalize and make lots of money (as with tobacco and alcohol), some of which goes to attempt to remediate some of the harmful effects of the drug.

Decriminalize, either fully, or to some degree.

My state government has kind of decriminalized....possession of marijuana up to, (I think, currently) two plants....it's treated like a traffic offence...on the spot fine.

More than that is treated as trafficking and you get charged with a criminal offence.




I wasn't going to respond but your post actually inspired me.

I think it is absolutely absurd that someone would use some psychological phenomena as a point as to why it should remain illegal when the flip side of the situation since it is illegal is a million times worse. Look at all the people that get sent to jail for possession. Its a burden on law enforcement where they could be actually putting their resources towards things that actually do matter. It would remove some of the incentive for people to steal property to pay for drugs since they are expensive. Tax payers wouldn't have to pay for the incarceration of drug dealers who are basically not harming anyone because anyone willing to purchase drugs have already decided they were going to use them anyways. Alcohol and tobacco kill more people than all illegal drugs combined.

Those who say it is illegal for political or economical reasons are far off base. It is so costly for the US to maintain the war on drugs it actually is going to be one of the causes for the US to go bankrupt. Most police officers are killed during drug busting raids than during any other aspect of the job. If you legalized drugs this would drastically reduce the rates of unnecessary officer deaths. Not only that but when a police officer is killed in the line of duty, their pensions go to the family which NO other job/career does. Not only that but if the officer had any children their college is automatically paid for if the officer dies in the line of duty. Soldiers don't even get that.

So do you honestly want to use some psychological disorder which probably is a result of natural occurrence anyways? As an excuse to keep drugs illegal?

I say all this, I support the legalization of all drugs, yet I do not use any drugs at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9WxQVw84Ts
dlowan
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:14 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
So do you honestly want to use some psychological disorder which probably is a result of natural occurrence anyways? As an excuse to keep drugs illegal?


If by "you" you mean me, I suggest you read my post.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:16 pm
personally I prefer opium.
dlowan
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:20 pm
@dyslexia,
Always wanted to try that.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:39 pm
I have never met any cannibals, so I can't really say.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jun, 2010 09:06 pm
@Krumple,
Without actually going into whether or not they should be legalised :
Quote:
I think it is absolutely absurd that someone would use some psychological phenomena as a point as to why it should remain illegal when the flip side of the situation since it is illegal is a million times worse. Look at all the people that get sent to jail for possession.

Amazing how those against legalisation maximise, and those for minimise - let's use correct terminology - long term psychological damage & short term psychological harm
This statement also ignores the physical damage.
Again - unsurprisingly - a ridiculous exageration while attempting to justify.
They send people to jail in the States for possessing marijuana?
Quote:
Its a burden on law enforcement where they could be actually putting their resources towards things that actually do matter. It would remove some of the incentive for people to steal property to pay for drugs since they are expensive.
People steal property to pay for their marijuana addiction? Or are you broadening the scope to all drugs now?
Quote:
Tax payers wouldn't have to pay for the incarceration of drug dealers who are basically not harming anyone because anyone willing to purchase drugs have already decided they were going to use them anyways.

The silliness of this quote is amazing - akin to saying enemy Afghani 'soldiers' aren't killing American soldiers because American soldiers signed up for it....or any number of similar comparisons.
Quote:
Alcohol and tobacco kill more people than all illegal drugs combined.

Tobacco kills via lung cancer right?...and marijuana is believed to cause 5 times the amount of lung damage...
Alcohol kills lots of people on the roads right?...drugs as a whole cause...in NSW, Australia -twice as many road deaths http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=42846&vf=12
In Spain : 10 drug related as opposed to 14 alcohol related http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-3XY1WT9-1&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F01%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1373424217&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=31afe1588aef3d49ba0700e483729c36
A more indepth article on marijuana related traffic accidents can be found here http://ncpic.org.au/ncpic/publications/research-briefs/article/driving-under-the-influence-of-cannabis-a-brief-review-of-the-literature
Seriously - it's not hard to find literature on the affects.

I would think that driving under the influence of drugs is a major issue, but it's not so easily tested as alcohol, and therefore harder to deter.
mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 08:29 am
Hi All,
Just in case this thread begins to follow the medical implications - There are none! Cannabinoids are produced naturally in the body's system, in the same way as glucose, testosterone, adrenalin, etc. Cannabis can be eaten, so needn't cause any ill-effect on the lung. It also has nothing to do with schizophrenia or psychosis, it may amplify these disorders, but it does not create them.
All cannabis does is enhance the senses, emotions and persona of the host - Taste, smell, touch, hearing, sight and perception are all amplified.
Have a brilliant day.
Mark...
vikorr
 
  2  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 02:31 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Just in case this thread begins to follow the medical implications - There are none! Cannabinoids are produced naturally in the body's system, in the same way as glucose, testosterone, adrenalin, etc.

This is one of the more farcial claims I've ever seen. Heroin is also produced naturally in the body - I'm sure you know what taking too much of that does to you. Same with adrenalin. Vitamins are necessary to health, yet too much of any one of them also produces illness.
Quote:
Cannabis can be eaten, so needn't cause any ill-effect on the lung.
This ignores that in the west it's prefered method of consumption is through smoking.
Quote:
It also has nothing to do with schizophrenia or psychosis, it may amplify these disorders, but it does not create them.
Here you simply haven't done your research. This is almost on the money, but also very far from it.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s777336.htm
http://www.health.vic.gov.au/drugservices/pubs/cannabis.htm (this link by the way, has a whole heap of references)
In fact if you type in 'Cannabis Schizophrenia' into any search engine, you will find a plethora of different research on it - I'm guessing none of which finds no link at all.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 02:36 pm
@vikorr,
Quote:

Tobacco kills via lung cancer right?...and marijuana is believed to cause 5 times the amount of lung damage...


I do not believe this is true in the slightest. I have done quite a bit of research on it, and what more, have a long familiarity with both substances. I can report that my lung function has increased tremendously since I quit ciggies, but marijuana does not seem to affect it at all.

Cycloptichorn
Transcend
 
  2  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 02:44 pm
Hi Mark! Hope you're having a great evening. I haven't been around here much recently because of exams, but now I have spare time!!

As far as cannabis goes, I think that it is just another example of the hypocrisy of our society (not just the government). If we go by the health effects alone we can see why. I'm not expert on the drug but I know that more people are killed by alcohol, but that isn't illegal. It's all about the dough, my friend.

Have a good'n Smile

Mike
djjd62
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 02:45 pm
SHOULD CANNABIS BE LEGAL...?

yes
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jun, 2010 02:51 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You can of course believe what you want. For example, you can believe that Cyanide is not a poison if you so choose to.

By the way, in relation to my previous post
Quote:
This is one of the more farcial claims I've ever seen. Heroin is also produced naturally in the body - I'm sure you know what taking too much of that does to you. Same with adrenalin. Vitamins are necessary to health, yet too much of any one of them also produces illness.
I realise this isn't very clear. There's a few things : just because the body produces something naturally, does not make that substance good in large amounts. Shizophrenia is a health/medical issue. And lastly, from what I've read, and personally seen, there appears to be a genetic lottery as to certain side effects of cannabis - schizophrenia, memory loss, brain function etc. The majority appear rather unaffected by the more negative side effects.
0 Replies
 
 

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