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How do animals/microbes communicate?

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 04:56 pm
Are the animal languages based upon inflection and tone patterns in their "words" or do creatures such as birds actually have a closed language that only they can decipher. Is there something in their DNA that allows this intelligence that we cannot perceive.

Can bacteria and microbes some how collectively communicate over the face of the globe? Whales, dolphins, tiny fish and insects, it seems only human arrogance that we are the only creatures that evolved to have the only complete definition of language. Animals impact the world in many expressive ways thus the earth itself (perhaps even the sun) is the written language of microbes. Are microbes just another part of life or are they responsible for shaping and curbing evolution. Isn't DNA a language written in biology.

Like seagulls there is that special seagull that searches for food then has a strange squawk when they find it and the other seagulls know their scavenger seagull archetype found food by the type of cry. Worms can sense the moon can they sense each other? Are there reservoirs of intelligence that we are completely unaware of?

Like the Gulf oil spill I figure eventually the bacteria/microbes from the sea will collect around the spill and attempt to feed off of it and heal the ocean. Is there a special bacteria that can communicate over large distances and call other bacteria/microbes to feed on the oil.

Do the seasonal birds here in the Maine summer all chattering up a storm outside my morning window know there is an oil spill in the gulf? Can they sense there is impending doom and hardship awaiting them in a few months. Will they know by the time they align into their perfect synchronized V formation and fly to their end?

Are these microbes responsible for creating the universe out of seemingly nothing? Is not this creation where "god said..." and "in the beginning was the word". Do words exist outside of the human mind?
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:08 pm
@RexRed,
i know i'm approaching a bird nest, by the noise an adult bird makes, so i can understand at least some bird language
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:18 pm
If there are microbes that eat hydrocarbons and expel carbon dioxide then logically there are microbes that eat iron or rock and expel oil. I see a complex language in this, a language of life itself. All of life is a book, with paragraphs and sentences formed by tiny nearly imperceptible words.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:20 pm
They don't communicate. They take in chemicals and emit chemicals.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:22 pm
@djjd62,
Even if the language may be Greek or Yiddish Smile there is a language of emotion conveyed also.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:24 pm
@littlek,
They may transfer bits of communication in the way they alter these chemicals, after all the words stored in our brains are just chemicals too.
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:27 pm
@RexRed,
Maybe they do. But, I think there'd be evidence of this.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 06:07 pm
@littlek,
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 06:53 pm
@RexRed,
Rex, pass the pipe.... <grin>
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:12 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:
They don't communicate. They take in chemicals and emit chemicals.

I'm pretty sure that's communication though. A few months ago, the New Yorker ran a sotry by E. O. Wilson about the history of an ant colony. Ants use pheromones to tell each other where to find food, how strong their enemy ant colonies are, and a number of other things. I highly recommend the article.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:18 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

littlek wrote:
They don't communicate. They take in chemicals and emit chemicals.

I'm pretty sure that's communication though. A few months ago, the New Yorker ran a sotry by E. O. Wilson about the history of an ant colony. Ants use pheromones to tell each other where to find food, how strong their enemy ant colonies are, and a number of other things. I highly recommend the article.


Absolutely!!


We are just prejudiced against chemical communication because we invented a whole other language.

We still communicate by chemicals, too, though, despite ourselves.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:20 pm
Now I'm imagining a teacher-ant with a stern look on her face pheromoning to a student-ant: "Humans don't communicate; they only emit and receive soundwaves."
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:31 pm
Ok, but the ants communicate so that something can be achieved. What do the microbes achieve en masse?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:38 pm
@littlek,
lol haha Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 08:40 pm
@Thomas,
That is hilarious!
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:07 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:

Ok, but the ants communicate so that something can be achieved. What do the microbes achieve en masse?



They have massively influenced all life on earth.

In multiple ways.

Just one example. Look at the Black Death.

Probably gradually led to European democracy.

How? Killed a third of the population of the UK and Europe.

Massive dearth of peasants. Peasant labour became scarcer and hence more valuable...peasants began to revolt and generally act up. They got killed a lot for their pains, but it is arguable that the Black Death was of enormous importance in gradually leading to the end of feudalism.


There are lots of books on the subject...eg:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel


0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:09 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Now I'm imagining a teacher-ant with a stern look on her face pheromoning to a student-ant: "Humans don't communicate; they only emit and receive soundwaves."



Yes!!!!

We also have emotional expressions which literally change the brains of those observing them (the mirror neurones...now becoming expanded to the mirror system.) (As do lots of animals...but we don' know about their empathy neurones yet...I bet the great apes have them.)

I wonder if ants have expressions?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:12 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Now I'm imagining a teacher-ant with a stern look on her face pheromoning to a student-ant: "Humans don't communicate; they only emit and receive soundwaves."


"They're too big to support intelligence as we know it. They're all Mongoes."
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:13 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:
Ok, but the ants communicate so that something can be achieved. What do the microbes achieve en masse?

Nothing. I also don't believe microbes communicate over long distances. (Unless you use the word "microbes" so loosely that your cells and mine qualify. We're all bunches of one-celled organism strung together through biochemical communication. (And some bioelectrical communication.))
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:17 pm
I wonder if the old chicken and egg conundrum can be changed to did life precede the physical world?

I am always amazed by the worlds perception that evolution springs out of the elemental and chemical physical world. It certainly seems that way.

I know the controversy that to put the cart before the horse and state that life existed before the big bang is contrary to many scientist's beliefs.

One does not have to deny evolution to still believe that some form of life preceded the big bang. That there was some sort of space bug with a fulcrum geared to gather time, dimension, space and infinite mass to itself to release it in a controlled way as to facilitate the universe with conclusive characteristics and properties so as to produce life (in its image) that can carry out the designer's ultimate purpose.

Evolution still calculates into that model and instead of the universe's purpose being shrouded in darkness it gives one a consideration that this universe may have intelligent secrets for one to discover. Not based upon a model where darkness and emptiness preceded the universe but a living unique possible intelligent organism preceded the big bang.

If nothing is created or destroyed then when we were born our "soul" was not unique and when we die nothing can be destroyed.

I cannot imagine that on the edges of the universe that information is not being lost and that thee is not a war of words and "corruption".

Iron rust, metals/elements burn and decay matter is created and destroyed in the eyes and design of the creator.

Does that creator need to be God? The creator can be a servant or messenger (angel) just as we are created/born of a fertilization process and reproduction that we do not necessarily consider as "God" either...

The reason why I mention all of this with creation and intelligent design is that it seems actually when we look at the philosophy of the out in the world perceptions of science the elements and chemistry are devoid of life.

I think even plants barely make it into what is considered "living" such that some refer to them as "still life".

Did Darwin make our universe seem dead? Do people devalue living things and the universe around them? Most people will argue that Darwin connected us to other living creatures but at the same time did he disconnect us from life beyond our universe's boundaries? One may think of a black hole as a certain part of the universe where the universe's DNA codes for that. Is the universe itself a huge brain and organism that lives and breathes and communicates to us through a spectrum of perceptibility. What did the universe evolve from?
 

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