Is it human nature to create hard to obtain values?

We often think of religions as setting lofty standards of what God expects, but it seems like society as a whole creates unobtainable values (and no doubt why religion is that way).

Our standard of living has changed dramatically over the years. In the 50's, families had modest homes, maybe 1 car, 1 tv, 1 phone, 1 bathroom. No a/c, no internet, vacations were a big thing. Clothing was homemade. Buying new possessions was definitely not an every day thing. By today's standard, this lifestyle is very feasible. But instead of feeling relieved that we can attain this lifestyle, we readjusted our "needs" until they were unattainable again. We needed two cars instead of 1. The houses got bigger. We needed more tv's. We need a cell phone.

Standards of female beauty seem to be inversely proportional to what the general society looks like. If you look at the ideals a few hundred years ago, the "beautiful" women were quite plump, while food (and therefore plumpness) was scarce for most of society. The ideals got progressively slimmer as society got bigger. The midcentury models and actresses are curvier than in the 80's and 90's. And then as obesity was reaching high levels, there was a dramatic slim down in the early 2000's. If you watch shows that spanned from the 90's-early 2000's, you can see a ten or so pound drop in just about every actress from the beginning of the series to the end. Society is changing how it views beauty in terms of how difficult it is to attain.

If it really was a "true" value (whatever that means), wouldn't it hold value even after it is attainable? But as soon as something becomes attainable, we move the line making the value unattainable again. It's like we don't truly value the thing we think (beauty, wealth), it's attaining the unattainable that we value. But only if others don't have it.

I would say that most of these isues would fall under the category of want more so rather than values. You speak of how people seek for something that they no access to but when they finally obtain it, they simply fix they're eyes (they're want) on something new, as you could guess this process will reciprocate in a continuos fashion. This is what some call reaching for grapes you can never grasp, Imagine an individual that is feeling rather down but he has some money so he thinks he can finally buy that new latest phone that has come out, so he buys the phone and he is content, but do you think he will now be truly happy? do you think he will now be satisfied? It is much the same way in which you were saying of how life was in the 50's, so if we think of how much we have in present compared to then you would think that we should be at least 10 times as happy, but instead of these new pleasures making us happy by filling our desire and satisfying our want, we have simply focused our want on new items, so we have essentially disregarded and forgotten about the things we wanted but obtained and have now fixed our eyes on things we do not poses, smart ha? People will work they're entire lives to attain as much money as they can in order to fulfill these worldly pleasures, they will buy and buy to make them selves happy, but the catch is that as soon as they obtain something they will want something new, they will never be happy, it is like the old notion of the donkey in front of the carriage, as the carrot is hanged in front of him he tries to reach it but as he does he only pushes it further, so he will try and try but he will never get it. Such is the illusion of materialism, people will strive they're entire existence to accumulate the most money possible as to make themselves happy unaware that this money and materialism that they confuse with wealth is a mere illusion, this is how people don't understand of why rich people with all they're wealth can become depressed, this is because it is not wealth, it disguises it self as wealth and happiness but it is in fact much the opposite. This is also what drives modern consumer capitalism, the working class will slave them selves to be able to be able to afford a "happy" life style, but this life style is always being reinvented, e.g every body gets on the wagon of buying a big fancy flat screen tv but just when everybody has obtained one they come out with 3D tv, so that people can be even more "happy". So you see with this technique of bringing out new models of the same merchandise this cycle never ends, it is a perpetual cycle of work, buy, be "happy", so since it is a perpetual cycle people will do this for most of they're lives trying to reach happiness much like the donkey tries to reach the carrot instead the only carriage people are pulling along is the bank accounts of the big business corporal capitalists. The corporatists have this huge money making treadmill which is powered by the working class that are under the illusion that they are running to reach happiness.

Are there any real "true" values? At the societal level?

... but it seems like society as a whole creates unobtainable values (and no doubt why religion is that way).

Our standard of living has changed dramatically over the years. In the 50's, families had modest homes, maybe 1 car, 1 tv, 1 phone, 1 bathroom. No a/c, no internet, vacations were a big thing. Clothing was homemade. Buying new possessions was definitely not an every day thing. By today's standard, this lifestyle is very feasible. But instead of feeling relieved that we can attain this lifestyle, we readjusted our "needs" until they were unattainable again. We needed two cars instead of 1. The houses got bigger. We needed more tv's. We need a cell phone.

We value women's purity and men's promiscuity, which is not only an inconsistency, but in order to obtain either ideal, we must violate the opposite value. We could easily value either one individually, but we set up a system that is by necessity self defeating. We can attain one or the other, but not both.

Standards of female beauty seem to be inversely proportional to what the general society looks like. If you look at the ideals a few hundred years ago, the "beautiful" women were quite plump, while food (and therefore plumpness) was scarce for most of society. The ideals got progressively slimmer as society got bigger. The midcentury models and actresses are curvier than in the 80's and 90's. And then as obesity was reaching high levels, there was a dramatic slim down in the early 2000's. If you watch shows that spanned from the 90's-early 2000's, you can see a ten or so pound drop in just about every actress from the beginning of the series to the end. Society is changing how it views beauty in terms of how difficult it is to attain.

It seems like we compulsively create artificial social structures where attaining something that someone else cannot is the goal. When we get to Jr. High, we instinctively organize ourselves in a hierarchy of popularity. Can humans only be happy if we can prove to ourselves that we're somehow better than others?

Maybe we reject that which is different because they refuse to "compete"? (example: gays. "How can I prove I can get more tail than him if he won't even try???") It destroys the social order if people won't buy into it.

If it really was a "true" value (whatever that means), wouldn't it hold value even after it is attainable? But as soon as something becomes attainable, we move the line making the value unattainable again. It's like we don't truly value the thing we think (beauty, wealth), it's attaining the unattainable that we value. But only if others don't have it.

... so he thinks he can finally buy that new latest phone that has come out, so he buys the phone and he is content, but do you think he will now be truly happy? do you think he will now be satisfied? It is much the same way in which you were saying of how life was in the 50's, so if we think of how much we have in present compared to then you would think that we should be at least 10 times as happy, but instead of these new pleasures making us happy by filling our desire and satisfying our want, we have simply focused our want on new items...

This is all brilliant. We just don't need this crap to be happy. We need food, shelter, friends, a heart full of love and eyes full of beauty. This is why the Wisdom aspect of philosophy is important. Anyway, great post Soul Brother.

Today's business environment is geared to take full advantage of this human behavior. One obvious case is the digital camera, they started out with 2 or 3 mega pixels and gradually worked thier way up to, I think it's at 13 now. I don't know much about building cameras but I would bet that once you got the mega pixel thing figured out, the difference between 3 and 13 isn't that great a leap. You can, though, make a lot more money if you stretch it out in increments.

Some of our reaching behavior is tied to our level of comfort. We plan and dream about some future level of comfort we will someday acheive, once we reach that level we envision a new greater level to work for.
Just to be fair, not everyone falls into this trap, there are plenty of people out there who take pride in thier economy and restraint.

The economy of an industialised nation is based on this behavior to a large degree, it forms the basis for economic growth.
We are ,however, begining to realise a lot of problems created by a society based on out of control spending and debt.
In the future we may see a change in these behaviors as the pendulum swings back the other way.

Today's business environment is geared to take full advantage of this human behavior

I would say that most of these isues would fall under the category of want more so rather than values. You speak of how people seek for something that they no access to but when they finally obtain it, they simply fix they're eyes (they're want) on something new, as you could guess this process will reciprocate in a continuos fashion. This is what some call reaching for grapes you can never grasp, Imagine an individual that is feeling rather down but he has some money so he thinks he can finally buy that new latest phone that has come out, so he buys the phone and he is content, but do you think he will now be truly happy? do you think he will now be satisfied? It is much the same way in which you were saying of how life was in the 50's, so if we think of how much we have in present compared to then you would think that we should be at least 10 times as happy, but instead of these new pleasures making us happy by filling our desire and satisfying our want, we have simply focused our want on new items, so we have essentially disregarded and forgotten about the things we wanted but obtained and have now fixed our eyes on things we do not poses, smart ha? People will work they're entire lives to attain as much money as they can in order to fulfill these worldly pleasures, they will buy and buy to make them selves happy, but the catch is that as soon as they obtain something they will want something new, they will never be happy, it is like the old notion of the donkey in front of the carriage, as the carrot is hanged in front of him he tries to reach it but as he does he only pushes it further, so he will try and try but he will never get it. Such is the illusion of materialism, people will strive they're entire existence to accumulate the most money possible as to make themselves happy unaware that this money and materialism that they confuse with wealth is a mere illusion, this is how people don't understand of why rich people with all they're wealth can become depressed, this is because it is not wealth, it disguises it self as wealth and happiness but it is in fact much the opposite. This is also what drives modern consumer capitalism, the working class will slave them selves to be able to be able to afford a "happy" life style, but this life style is always being reinvented, e.g every body gets on the wagon of buying a big fancy flat screen tv but just when everybody has obtained one they come out with 3D tv, so that people can be even more "happy". So you see with this technique of bringing out new models of the same merchandise this cycle never ends, it is a perpetual cycle of work, buy, be "happy", so since it is a perpetual cycle people will do this for most of they're lives trying to reach happiness much like the donkey tries to reach the carrot instead the only carriage people are pulling along is the bank accounts of the big business corporal capitalists. The corporatists have this huge money making treadmill which is powered by the working class that are under the illusion that they are running to reach happiness.

As much as I agree with this, it is not just the individuals fault. The government weighs in heavy as to why this type of behavior is occurring. In the US the FED is keeping interest rates so low, there is absolutely NO incentive to save money, you are in fact encouraged to spend because saving money will actually cost you money in the long run. They are doing this because the US doesn't produce any goods any more and GDP relies on consumer spending and the government in turn gets more tax revenue.

So I blame the government as the source of this problem, not the people. The people are the victims, not of capitalism, but a government induced problem of fixed interest rates. In a free open market system, without government interference this type of behavior would be minimal at best. It is simple economics.

I would say that most of these isues would fall under the category of want more so rather than values.

The economy of an industialised nation is based on this behavior to a large degree, it forms the basis for economic growth.
We are ,however, begining to realise a lot of problems created by a society based on out of control spending and debt.
In the future we may see a change in these behaviors as the pendulum swings back the other way.

Most are attainable though; all I need to is show one person as having attained 'that state' for any value spoken of and ta-da! Its proven doable. I'm not saying that there aren't 'states of achievement' that aren't impractical or flat-out impossible, I do think that most cultural/individual achievements we value are doable.

This is an interesting one. I'm not sure either male promiscuity or feminine purity is valued as much as it once was. But accepting that they are, we're talking about two different conditions that come from completely different motivations: Males being viril and females being discreet or prudent. Both are influenced by reproduction and desirability as well as cultural mores (some of which are vastly influenced by religion and perceptions of role). They're actually so different, so divergent, that the realization of them being in practical conflict isn't a surprise. Further, much of their basis doesn't come from society; each has large influences from evolutionary development. So yea, practically they conflict, but they're so divergent with so many influences and caveats that to gasp at their apparent conflict is somewhat banal.

Pave the streets with diamonds, cover the beaches with them and they'll not be as much sought after.

Krumple, you must have also posted as I was writing.

Oh absolutely! I blame not the people but wish to help them, it is the people that are put to work powering the treadmill while the large corporations sit back put they're feet up and watch the money grow. I agree totally and there is not denying that the people are in fact the victims here, the working class will work they're entire lives to run and upkeep not only they're own lives but they're country only to have it all ruined by a phew in power, I acknowledge fully that the current state of affairs (and in fact most in history) are a due cause of bad government, but you have admit that the victimizing of the working class people that we speak of is most largely due to the giant corporations, they are what create the need buy cycle and what create the extreme contrast and unfairness of the manner in which the money is portioned, single corporations will have within them selves the same money that can be found shared by thousands if not millions of people, this human weakness that they exploit for the powering of the perpetual work, buy, be happy cycle is what is what creates the level of diversity of "wealth", the poor get poorer while the rich get richer.