Religion, Society, and Civilization

I think the last part of your quote is misleading. Shouldn't we take into account the fact that religion held the grand majority of all people during the times of the fore mentioned scientists? Include the social stigma involved with being an atheist, and there likely existed more closet atheists than we could be aware of, which certainly isn't a refutation of your statement, but it should be taken into consideration.

The old saying will always reign supreme: correlation does not imply causation.

Religion will always be a negative factor on humanity. A blind belief in an ultimate source of judgment independent of the person is not compatible with free human development.

I also reject the idea that religion is corrupted by society. It was created by society for the single purpose of control. It's not really corrupted so much as it just has an abhorrent origin.

Edit: I should clarify that my first point is limited to theism more than normal spirituality. My second point is limited to the dominant abrahamic traditions.

And that is what I would call a statement of pure prejudice. There are many people who say that nowadays - but no matter what horrors religious institutions have visited upon human society (and I don't deny it), the Judeo Christian ethos is still a bedrock of Western society and one of the foundations of civilization.

There are millions of people today being fed, clothed and educated by religious charities, and billions living according to religious codes and ethics.

It's not prejudice. There is a premise in all the Abrahamic religions that places God as the final judge and jury of all humans. This is incompatible with free human development, which I think is a good thing. So rather than prejudice, it's just logical for me to feel that way. You're certainly free to reject my assumption that God is incompatible with free human development, or that free human development is a good thing, but to label it as prejudice is just weak.

I agree that it is a foundation of our civilization, but is that much to its credit? Are you suggesting we might be worse without it? Do you have a reason to believe that? These are all questions we have to address.

Even though man`s words are temporary and fallible, divine revelation is not. Jesus said: "Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will never pass away". So any other "revelation" cannot be trustworthy from a truely Christian perspective. Even the apostle Paul said that even if he himself were to teach another gospel he should be cursed.

It is true that Christ's words will not pass away. Paul knew his station, and knew that it was not yet time for God to renew religion with a new revelation. But Christ spoke of His own return, and of the coming of the Father, and of the coming of the Kingdom of God. The Jews in the time of Christ had, based on the previous prophecies, decided what to expect when the Messiah came. They made the mistake of thinking that God was going to follow the scenario that they had imagined based on their interpretation of scripture. God did not do what they expected, so the learned amongst them did not recognize the Messiah when he came in the form of Jesus Christ. Divest yourself of the interpretations of men that you might recognize Christ's return. See the website linked below:
Let Us Reason Together

If god knowing the end of things, at the time of the beginning, created me the way I am, then are not all of my faults his doing? I did not ask to be created. And even if I have free will to do as I please, did he not create me to will the things that I will? If you made a cake from scratch and the cake didn't taste the way you wanted, would you blame the cake. If you created by some means, a computer that achieved its own intelligence, and that computer didn't act the way you wanted, wouldn't it still be your doing?

If god knowing the end of things, at the time of the beginning, created me the way I am, then are not all of my faults his doing? I did not ask to be created. And even if I have free will to do as I please, did he not create me to will the things that I will? If you made a cake from scratch and the cake didn't taste the way you wanted, would you blame the cake. If you created by some means, a computer that achieved its own intelligence, and that computer didn't act the way you wanted, wouldn't it still be your doing?

Sword, perhaps this quote from the Baha'i Writings will clarify what I am talking about:
For man two wings are necessary. One wing is physical power and material civilization; the other is spiritual power and divine civilization. With one wing only, flight is impossible. Two wings are essential. Therefore, no matter how much material civilization advances, it cannot attain to perfection except through the uplift of spiritual civilization."
- `Abdu'l-Baha

I could have guessed that response was coming. You can imagine what the doctrinal position of the evangelicals is on Baha'i, can you not?

Imagine? I have heard it often enough from my own brother!:perplexed:
There are many books and websites that show clearly that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ (like Let Us Reason Together), but my brother, and most other fundamentalist Christians, don't want to let go of their expectations long enough to even read them. It seems that unless God does things the way they have decided He is supposed to do them, they will not believe that He has done them.

Every few years there is a new cult like this that springs up and talks about end times and the second coming. It is all a bunch of male cow feces. Theists want this to happen so badly they will kill millions of people to make it happen. The establishment of Israel was due to the leaders within the US government trying to make prophecy come about. They didn't care who had to suffer to make the whole thing work and even till this day, thousands die because of this silly belief.

I tell you what, I have a special experiment I want to conduct. You send me one hundred dollars to enter into this special experiment and if the second coming is happening with evidence during my life time then I will gladly pay you out one hundred million dollars.

I place a side bet that absolutely NO ONE will take me up on my offer.