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Suppose that there is a Heaven...

 
 
Alexandergreat3
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Dec, 2009 09:45 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;107831 wrote:
I really like the way in which Alex is asking these important questions. I would like to ask one that is similar and in line with his current questions.


Thanks! I'm glad you find them questions interesting. Smile

Krumple wrote:
If there is anything missing in heaven, that effects your personality, would it change or alter you as an entity?


Interesting question. Hmm... when you said "anything missing in heaven", were you referring to environmental things, such as cars, tv, radios, etc.? Or were you referring to things that are part of a person, such as eyes, ears, reproductive organs?

I think that even here on earth, when a person go through different experiences and physical changes, his/her personality changes as well, and to me, that is a change (even if it's a very small change) in who that person was before.

Going through puberty, getting married, having kids, and so on, comes to mind.

Krumple wrote:
So an example is, you like violence and it is your pleasure in life, since you repented for your sins and was granted access to heaven, do you get to keep this aspect of your personality?


Liking violence as in liking aggressive activities such as football, boxing, and so on, or liking violence as in wanting to beat the crap out of other people and killing?

Krumple wrote:
Or do you drastically change? Does all the negative, depressed, anger, anxiety, ect, all cease upon entry?


Good question :a-ok:

I once took this course on neuro-psychology, and one of the interesting things I learned from the class was that there is a part in the brain (called the Amygdala) of humans and some animals that processes memory and emotional reactions (conditioned fear and anxiety).

Well, there was a research that was done on cats where the researchers removed this part of their brain, and they let the cat walked across cages of big apes. They found that these cats showed no fear! (The title of this textbook is "Fundamental principle of neuropsychology" by Kolb and Whishaw, 5th edition).

So back to your question. Well, if a person enters "heaven" where he/she doesn't have an Amygdalla, then it seems logical that he/she no longer have fear or anxiety. I mean, it's already possible with cats here on earth :shocked:.

PS: Here is an article on this part of the brain relating to fear
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Dec, 2009 10:08 pm
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;108014 wrote:
when you said "anything missing in heaven", were you referring to environmental things, such as cars, tv, radios, etc.? Or were you referring to things that are part of a person, such as eyes, ears, reproductive organs?


All of the above, each have their issues. Take tattoos for example, will I get to keep them, would they be imprinted onto my soul? If not can souls get tattoos or would that just be another thing that gets written off because you'll be in this trance catatonic state of endless bliss and not care about anything?

Alexandergreat3;108014 wrote:

I think that even here on earth, when a person go through different experiences and physical changes, his/her personality changes as well, and to me, that is a change (even if it's a very small change) in who that person was before.


Yep, physical deformities or losses tend to make the person in certain ways. Which brings up another point in the bible it states that no person with deformities is allowed into heaven. Heh, but another thing that a majority of christians gloss over these days.

Alexandergreat3;108014 wrote:

Liking violence as in liking aggressive activities such as football, boxing, and so on, or liking violence as in wanting to beat the crap out of other people and killing?


Yeah like boxing or mixed martial arts wouldn't be a venue for entertainment in heaven because of the violence.

Alexandergreat3;108014 wrote:

I once took this course on neuro-psychology, and one of the interesting things I learned from the class was that there is a part in the brain (called the Amygdala) of humans and some animals that processes memory and emotional reactions (conditioned fear and anxiety).

Well, there was a research that was done on cats where the researchers removed this part of their brain, and they let the cat walked across cages of big apes. They found that these cats showed no fear! (The title of this textbook is "Fundamental principle of neuropsychology" by Kolb and Whishaw, 5th edition).

So back to your question. Well, if a person enters "heaven" where he/she doesn't have an Amygdalla, then it seems logical that he/she no longer have fear or anxiety. I mean, it's already possible with cats here on earth :shocked:.

PS: Here is an article on this part of the brain relating to fear


Okay, well if this aspect of the brain were removed, then perhaps all things of the brain could be removed as well? I'm just having a hard time with understanding just what type of being would you be if at all? If heaven is a true thing then all the things we have in this world would be completely moot and forgotten as if they never happened. But if that is the case then why even have it?
Alexandergreat3
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Dec, 2009 10:17 pm
@xris,
IntoTheLight wrote:
It's not like you have a choice in the matter.


Yeah, I'm afraid none of us do have any choice :bigsmile:.

But hypothetically speaking, if we do have a choice, then I know that I would want to find out where I'm going and if it's really where I want to go to.

IntoTheLight wrote:
If you were in a state of spiritual bliss, I hardly think that any physical pleasures would be neccessary or even satisfying.

When you come right down to it, all the things you described are temporary and fleeting.


I used to do meditation to relax myself, and one time, I experienced a state of calmness where my mind did not have any wandering thoughts at all. It was almost complete silence, but I was still fully aware of my surrounding. This last for about 2-5 minutes, and it wasn't like anything I have experienced before. My mind was crystal clear after that, free of wandering thoughts for that entire day. I became really alert and this last for about a week.

Now, I'm not sure what spiritual bliss really means, but what I felt was pretty surreal. However, I can only speak for myself that, eventhough this experience was pretty fascinating, it certainly cannot replace good food, beverages, and the company of a beautiful woman Very Happy.

To me, they each give us different kinds of happiness. Why take anyone of them away in order to focus entirely on another?
0 Replies
 
Alexandergreat3
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Dec, 2009 11:12 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;108020 wrote:
All of the above, each have their issues. Take tattoos for example, will I get to keep them, would they be imprinted onto my soul?


*scratches head* *thinking*

Hmm... well, if "heaven" exists and it's anything like in the first "The Matrix", then the appearance would depend on one's own self image Very Happy?
(Neo enters the simulation program and his digital clothes were different)

Krumple wrote:
If not can souls get tattoos or would that just be another thing that gets written off because you'll be in this trance catatonic state of endless bliss and not care about anything?


Lol, I suppose a soul can get tattoos if tattoo artists are allowed into "heaven" ^_^. By the way, does anyone know if it's considered a "sin" to have body paint/tatto according to Judaism/Christianity?


Krumple wrote:
Yep, physical deformities or losses tend to make the person in certain ways. Which brings up another point in the bible it states that no person with deformities is allowed into heaven. Heh, but another thing that a majority of christians gloss over these days.


Wow, really!? That's harsh! I can totally see why such topic would not be talked a lot about today... Instant controversy!

Krumple wrote:
Yeah like boxing or mixed martial arts wouldn't be a venue for entertainment in heaven because of the violence.


I like Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) a lot. I enjoy it from the athletic, fitness, and artistic aspects of it and not on the part of kicking another guy's ass. Very Happy
So if there is this wonderful place called "heaven", it would be pretty important for me that it allows MMA so I can enjoy (minus the injury and pain associated with it). But I guess I can live without it.

Krumple wrote:
Okay, well if this aspect of the brain were removed, then perhaps all things of the brain could be removed as well? I'm just having a hard time with understanding just what type of being would you be if at all? If heaven is a true thing then all the things we have in this world would be completely moot and forgotten as if they never happened. But if that is the case then why even have it?


*Matrix theory time* Very Happy Maybe the experiences are there to let us know what each "feels" like so when we get back to this place called "heaven", our conscious can remember and replicate these experiences? We remember what a vanilla ice cream tastes like, so we can just sit and recall the taste, and we would experience the ice cream again?
0 Replies
 
re turner jr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Dec, 2009 10:22 pm
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;107778 wrote:

^_^ If you could take a way or modify any 1 "characteristics of heaven" from the above 12, which would it be, in order to make it more appealing?


I like the symbolic representation of heaven as given by Lewis in "The Great Divorce". (good book and a quick read). I also like Luther's take on the whole no alcohol thing, the quote is something like, "We know God loves us because he gave us beer." Leave it to some celibate monks shut off from the world to really refine the art of brewing...
So alcohol is in
Also, many religions accept sex as good (and not just for procreation). Really, how pissed would the Muslims be to get to paradise with their 16 virgins and find they have no package. Or the vikings traveling to Valhalla with their woman to find the same. also in the Eden account in Genesis, note that A&E had sex before the fall (and the two became one flesh).
So sex is in
Again with food... Food in Eden, pre-fall of man. And really, what are we to make the booze out of if we don't have food stuff to use? and what good is wine without cheese, beer without pizza, etc...
So food is in
Alexandergreat3
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 01:11 am
@re turner jr,
re_turner_jr;108677 wrote:
I like the symbolic representation of heaven as given by Lewis in "The Great Divorce". (good book and a quick read). I also like Luther's take on the whole no alcohol thing, the quote is something like, "We know God loves us because he gave us beer." Leave it to some celibate monks shut off from the world to really refine the art of brewing...
So alcohol is in
Also, many religions accept sex as good (and not just for procreation). Really, how pissed would the Muslims be to get to paradise with their 16 virgins and find they have no package. Or the vikings traveling to Valhalla with their woman to find the same. also in the Eden account in Genesis, note that A&E had sex before the fall (and the two became one flesh).
So sex is in
Again with food... Food in Eden, pre-fall of man. And really, what are we to make the booze out of if we don't have food stuff to use? and what good is wine without cheese, beer without pizza, etc...
So food is in


I'm in! Very Happy So pretty much it's safe to say that Luther's Heaven is the same as earth minus the pain and suffering and death?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 05:17 am
@Alexandergreat3,
So how long will it take before you have your fill? Sounds a very shallow narrow view of a place we attempt to imagine. I dont think an eternity of fillet steak is my idea of a higher plane.
0 Replies
 
re turner jr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 07:39 am
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;108700 wrote:
I'm in! Very Happy So pretty much it's safe to say that Luther's Heaven is the same as earth minus the pain and suffering and death?


I think there is a little more to it than that...

I really do like the way C.S. Lewis presents heaven in 'The Great Divorce'.

---------- Post added 12-07-2009 at 07:43 AM ----------

xris;108772 wrote:
So how long will it take before you have your fill? Sounds a very shallow narrow view of a place we attempt to imagine. I dont think an eternity of fillet steak is my idea of a higher plane.


Point taken. We find a piece of the answer to that question in a child's delight in the monotonous. When I throw my 2 yr old up in the air he says do it again. and again. and again . . . . . .

I would say our delight in heaven is not the stuff we have or are surrounded by but it is God who is the perpetual novelty. It is in Him that we will never have our fill.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 01:08 pm
@re turner jr,
As I dont find the necessity for a god in heaven my eternity might just be different to yours. The spirit you find in heaven may just be very similar to you and a kindred spirit may be your reward. Logic is a very good guide to what is possible here or in heaven.
re turner jr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2009 11:24 pm
@xris,
xris;108910 wrote:
As I dont find the necessity for a god in heaven my eternity might just be different to yours. The spirit you find in heaven may just be very similar to you and a kindred spirit may be your reward. Logic is a very good guide to what is possible here or in heaven.


but as you pointed out... That would get real boring after a short while, especially if the spirit I find in heaven is similar to me. and logic is good and all, until you want to hear a joke, play ball, or need a hug.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2009 06:52 am
@re turner jr,
re_turner_jr;109106 wrote:
but as you pointed out... That would get real boring after a short while, especially if the spirit I find in heaven is similar to me. and logic is good and all, until you want to hear a joke, play ball, or need a hug.
Time would be of no consequence and maybe after a while you might just move on.
re turner jr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2009 11:34 am
@xris,
xris;109196 wrote:
Time would be of no consequence and maybe after a while you might just move on.


lol, After a while?? what is that if time is no consequence?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2009 12:32 pm
@re turner jr,
re_turner_jr;109844 wrote:
lol, After a while?? what is that if time is no consequence?
Consequence, not none existent in relative terms. The passing of time when time has no relevance could move differently to our earthly concept.
0 Replies
 
 

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