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Tue 1 Dec, 2009 03:28 am
Suppose that there is a Heaven, and after you die, you have the choice of either going to Heaven to live for eternity or going back to reborn as a human.
Which would you choose if you were informed that these are the characteristics of Heaven (explain your answer):
1) You'll live forever
2) You'll look exactly the same as you are right now... For eternity.
(eg. If you're skinny, you'll stay skinny; if you're fat, you'll stay fat; if you're tall, you'll stay tall; if you're a midget, you'll stay a midget, etc.)
3) You do NOT get hungry in Heaven; therefore, there is no food in Heaven of any kind.
4) You do NOT get thirsty in Heaven; therefore, there is no beverages in Heaven of any kind.
5) There is no death, and therefore, there is no birth.
If there is no birth, then there is no reproductive organs. (Breasts, vagina, penis, etc.)
If there is no reproductive organs, then there is no sex.
6) There is no TVs, no computers, no films.
7) There is no sports of any kind - no basketball, football, baseball, golf, soccer, boxing, mixed martial arts, etc., because according to Heaven, any sports encourages competitiveness, pride, and glutony -- sins. Also, a sport results in winner and loser, and in Heaven, there is no losing allowed, so there is no sports.
8) You all wear the same type of clothing: A white robe - for eternity.
9) You all wear the same type of shoe: A Greek sandal.
10) You go to Church everyday to praise God's name.
11) You can only listen to soft, happy music (eg Classical, Church music), because Heaven is a peaceful place for peaceful people. Rap, Heavy metal, pop, R&B, blues, and Jazz are banned, because they either too loud, upbeat, or sad, and that goes against Heaven's ideals.
12) You can only read books about the truth - no fiction, because "though shall not lie", and a fictional story is a lie. Therefore, the only books you will read are the books about the saints, about Jesus Christ, and the Bible.
@Alexandergreat3,
Good question. It's a tough one, because I like classical music. Immortality has its charms as well. No sex sucks.
But it should be mentioned: the Bible is stuffed with amazing fiction. And if I have the entire history of classical music to choose from, AND the Bible, AND no sickness or pain, I might choose heaven.
Because another life on earth would be better but also much shorter. Much much shorter. Take the bible and music away and I would have to choose earth.
@Reconstructo,
How would we pass the time in Heaven, other than in worship and cultural activities? Would we do any work? Remember that sloth is a sin.
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;107236 wrote:Suppose that there is a Heaven, and after you die, you have the choice of either going to Heaven to live for eternity or going back to reborn as a human.
For me, that is pretty simple:
I would choose to say in "heaven" and NOT go back the mortal realm. I have no desire whatsoever re-live this present, difficult reality.
-ITL-
---------- Post added 12-01-2009 at 06:09 PM ----------
ACB;107407 wrote:How would we pass the time in Heaven, other than in worship and cultural activities? Would we do any work? Remember that sloth is a sin.
Reality TV.
=)
-ITL-
@IntoTheLight,
I am with John Lennon
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today (hum along)
@ACB,
ACB;107407 wrote:How would we pass the time in Heaven, other than in worship and cultural activities? Would we do any work? Remember that sloth is a sin.
Well, you can paint, draw, play and/or listen to classical and/or church music.
IntoTheLight wrote:For me, that is pretty simple:
I would choose to say in "heaven" and NOT go back the mortal realm. I have no desire whatsoever re-live this present, difficult reality.
-ITL-
So your choice for Heaven is to not have to re-experience the current difficulties that you're having right now? (Even though you're fully aware that certain pleasurable activities do not exist in Heaven)
IntoTheLight wrote:Reality TV.
=)
-ITL-
There is no TV or films whatsoever
.
@Alexandergreat3,
Alex, I am glad someone is asking the important questions that many ignore.
Your list makes heaven sound like hell. At least to me, it would be hell without my favorite music. Also if I couldn't be entertained with books or movies that expressed difficulties it would really be a sad place. Wearing the same clothes and looking the same for ever would also get boring really quick. Not to mention I wouldn't be worshiping anything, especially if this is the reward you get from being a mindless conformist. Yep I said it.
I am with John Lennon too. There is no heaven or hell. We die and that is it for existence.
@Krumple,
what if you could invent your own heaven, would that be acceptable. Heaven might then only be a respite centre for you to review your life's experiences and if willing take another chance with the lottery of life.
Why does it have to be designed by the god believers, why does it require god to be there, he aint here why there.
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;107489 wrote:
So your choice for Heaven is to not have to re-experience the current difficulties that you're having right now? (Even though you're fully aware that certain pleasurable activities do not exist in Heaven)
I'm responding within the two choices you've offered in your hypothetical example. Personally, I don't know if there is any kind of "afterlife". But if there was some realm where consciousness existed after our deaths, I would prefer to remain there rather than coming back here to do it all again.
As far as a lack of "pleasurable activities", that would be irrelevant to me as even today, I don't see attaining unlimited pleasure as a goal.
Quote:
There is no TV or films whatsoever
.
Oh, sure there is. I happen to know for a fact that Lord Vishnu is a huge fan of "The Golden GIrls" (especially Bea Arthur) and watches it every night. Also, Odin and Anubis regularly have marathon showings of "Father Knows Best". I think your source is wrong...
-ITL-
---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 07:43 AM ----------
One serious question to the original poster:
What makes you think that "heaven" would be the way you described it?
Why wouldn't it be like Vahalla, for example?
Just curious.
-ITL-
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;1070236 wrote:
1) You'll live forever
That could get redundant...
[quote=Alexandergreat3]2) You'll look exactly the same as you are right now... For eternity.[/quote]Alexandergreat3 wrote:
(eg. If you're skinny, you'll stay skinny; if you're fat, you'll stay fat; if you're tall, you'll stay tall; if you're a midget, you'll stay a midget, etc.)
So if I die when Im like 90 years old then Im going to be a slow, dim-witted, half blind, half deaf, struggling-to-walk old man?
Remember, 'right now' is different for many people.
[quote=Alexandergreat3]3) You do NOT get hungry in Heaven; therefore, there is no food in Heaven of any kind.[/quote]Alexandergreat3 wrote:
4) You do NOT get thirsty in Heaven; therefore, there is no beverages in Heaven of any kind.
5) There is no death, and therefore, there is no birth.
If there is no birth, then there is no reproductive organs. (Breasts, vagina, penis, etc.)
If there is no reproductive organs, then there is no sex.
6) There is no TVs, no computers, no films.
7) There is no sports of any kind - no basketball, football, baseball, golf, soccer, boxing, mixed martial arts, etc., because according to Heaven, any sports encourages competitiveness, pride, and glutony -- sins. Also, a sport results in winner and loser, and in Heaven, there is no losing allowed, so there is no sports.
8) You all wear the same type of clothing: A white robe - for eternity.
9) You all wear the same type of shoe: A Greek sandal.
10) You go to Church everyday to praise God's name.
11) You can only listen to soft, happy music (eg Classical, Church music), because Heaven is a peaceful place for peaceful people. Rap, Heavy metal, pop, R&B, blues, and Jazz are banned, because they either too loud, upbeat, or sad, and that goes against Heaven's ideals.
12) You can only read books about the truth - no fiction, because "though shall not lie", and a fictional story is a lie. Therefore, the only books you will read are the books about the saints, about Jesus Christ, and the Bible.
Dang... so you dont actually get to do anything but praise and egocentric tyrant?
Sounds like fun. Cant wait...
@xris,
xris;107548 wrote:Why does it have to be designed by the god believers,
lol,
xris, I am a God believer and I hope like hell (pun very much intended) that heaven is not like that...
Alex, Where did you get this idea of heaven? Ohh, and I would remain in heaven, even if it were as you described, but I would be ticked and asking to speak to the management (or is being ticked against the rules, lol)...
@re turner jr,
re_turner_jr;107685 wrote:
Alex, Where did you get this idea of heaven?
I was wondering that myself....
-ITL-
@prothero,
prothero;107471 wrote:I am with John Lennon
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today (hum along)
Hey, this is a pretty good song! (Edit: I think the band "Our Lady Peace" did an equally or even better tribute version.)
Krumple wrote:Alex, I am glad someone is asking the important questions that many ignore.
Your list makes heaven sound like hell. At least to me, it would be hell without my favorite music.
:bigsmile: Are you into rap, heavy metal, or techno?
I personally like a good variety, depending on the occasion and mood. I listen to some rap, some heavy metal (such as Marilyn Manson's "Seizure of power", UFC's "Face the pain" when I workout at the gym to pump me up), latin dance beats, soft rock, orchestra, film music, and so on.
Yeah, I agree with you on that in order to qualify as "heaven", we should be able to enjoy any kind of music we wish, otherwise, it would be better here on earth.
Krumple wrote:Also if I couldn't be entertained with books or movies that expressed difficulties it would really be a sad place. Wearing the same clothes and looking the same for ever would also get boring really quick. Not to mention I wouldn't be worshiping anything, especially if this is the reward you get from being a mindless conformist. Yep I said it.
I am with John Lennon too. There is no heaven or hell. We die and that is it for existence.
Yep, just as with music, I think almost everything that has to do with entertainment needs to have a variety to keep things interesting - LOTS and LOTS of variety especially when we're talking about eternal life here.
xris wrote:what if you could invent your own heaven, would that be acceptable. Heaven might then only be a respite centre for you to review your life's experiences and if willing take another chance with the lottery of life.
Hey interesting question! I'm not sure if "inventing your own heaven or mini heaven within the heaven" would be acceptable from the point of views of fundamental Christianity beliefs. That would be like you're just been given access to a piece of land on "heaven", and it's up to you to build whatever you like on that land.
Anyone who has good knowledge of fundamental Christian beliefs wants to chime in?
xris wrote:Why does it have to be designed by the god believers, why does it require god to be there, he aint here why there.
I don't think god believers design heaven, but more like how it's been told according to the Bible and/or by the prophets.
@Alexandergreat3,
IntoTheLight wrote:I'm responding within the two choices you've offered in your hypothetical example. Personally, I don't know if there is any kind of "afterlife". But if there was some realm where consciousness existed after our deaths, I would prefer to remain there rather than coming back here to do it all again.
Yeah, no one really knows if there is any kind of "afterlife". But suppose that there is, and a person has a choice of going there or going back to earth, I think it makes sense that the person needs to know what it's like over there before he/she uses the one-way ticket :cool:.
IntoTheLight wrote:As far as a lack of "pleasurable activities", that would be irrelevant to me as even today, I don't see attaining unlimited pleasure as a goal.
Oh, I don't mean expecting unlimited pleasure in an ideal "heaven", but just some basic human pleasurable activities such as good food, beverages, good music, and good sex
. I don't think too many people would honestly believe that these are not important aspects of our lives. Granted, when people get old or sick or not feeling well, there might be no sex drive or the desire to listen to music or enjoyment of food.
IntoTheLight wrote:Oh, sure there is. I happen to know for a fact that Lord Vishnu is a huge fan of "The Golden GIrls" (especially Bea Arthur) and watches it every night. Also, Odin and Anubis regularly have marathon showings of "Father Knows Best". I think your source is wrong...
Damn, why didn't I think of that :brickwall:.
@Alexandergreat3,
Kielicious wrote:That could get redundant...
So if I die when Im like 90 years old then Im going to be a slow, dim-witted, half blind, half deaf, struggling-to-walk old man?
Remember, 'right now' is different for many people.
LOL! Very good thoughts! This is going to be a dilema for entering heaven isn't it? So let's say that a 90-year old person won't be 90 when he/she enters heaven, then what would his/her physical age, emotional age, and cognitive age (intelligence) be?
Would this person look like a 21-year old with the emotion and intelligence of a 90-year old?
And what happen to them after they live for, hmmm, 999 years on heaven? :whoa-dude:
Kielicious wrote:Dang... so you dont actually get to do anything but praise and egocentric tyrant?
Sounds like fun. Cant wait...
Isn't it a reasonable way to say thank you in return for eternal life? ^_^
re_turner_jr wrote:lol,
xris, I am a God believer and I hope like hell (pun very much intended) that heaven is not like that...
^_^ If you could take a way or modify any 1 "characteristics of heaven" from the above 12, which would it be, in order to make it more appealing?
re_turner_jr wrote:Alex, Where did you get this idea of heaven? Ohh, and I would remain in heaven, even if it were as you described, but I would be ticked and asking to speak to the management (or is being ticked against the rules, lol)...
IntoTheLight wrote:I was wondering that myself....
Heh, a good number of characteristics listed I got from simple reasoning, me thinks.
For example, number 3-5 (hunger, thirst, sex) has to do with biological and reproductive needs as humans. Assuming there is a "heaven" and life is eternal (no death), then it means that there is no birth either. And if there is no birth, there would be no use for reproductive organs, and hence no sexual intercourse.
What a bummer huh? :brickwall:"Why no sex in heaven, why?"
The part about food and drinks also follow the similar logic. Humans eat and drink to get molecular energy from food to sustain our cells and life. If life on heaven is eternal, then it follows that neither food nor drink are needed.
In addition, if we were to eat and drink anyway, the obvious question then would be, "what happen to the food and water we consume? Do we excrete feces and piss out urine like we do here on earth? Would it smell wonderful like roses since it's in heaven?" ^_^
@Alexandergreat3,
I dont think if heaven exists its exclusive to believers. Can you imagine the shock for believers bumping into the heathen next door when they first arrived?:perplexed:
I believe in the possibility of a soul through personal experiences but not a benevolent god. Why o why cant we have a heaven without god being there. Is it essential, he does not appear very obvious to me here why should he find it necessary to turn up in this other dimension?
@Alexandergreat3,
I really like the way in which Alex is asking these important questions. I would like to ask one that is similar and in line with his current questions.
If there is anything missing in heaven, that effects your personality, would it change or alter you as an entity? So an example is, you like violence and it is your pleasure in life, since you repented for your sins and was granted access to heaven, do you get to keep this aspect of your personality? Or do you drastically change? Does all the negative, depressed, anger, anxiety, ect, all cease upon entry?
@Krumple,
Ide like to think if we had a purpose it was to experience life and when the pressures and pleasures of this life become insignificant we become retrospective. Take sex, its a physical need without that desire we dont cease to be who we are. To become aware of ourselves and all that we where and who we are, is not denying or remaining the same. Of to the pub nighty night.
@xris,
xris;107782 wrote:I dont think if heaven exists its exclusive to believers. Can you imagine the shock for believers bumping into the heathen next door when they first arrived?:perplexed:
Lol. That would probably be shocking.
xris wrote:I believe in the possibility of a soul through personal experiences but not a benevolent god. Why o why cant we have a heaven without god being there. Is it essential, he does not appear very obvious to me here why should he find it necessary to turn up in this other dimension?
Good question. If there were a heaven and a God who created it, then he doesn't necessarily have to exist in heaven where the people live, since as you pointed out, if he doesn't show himself on earth, why would he show himself on heaven?
@Alexandergreat3,
Alexandergreat3;107776 wrote:Yeah, no one really knows if there is any kind of "afterlife". But suppose that there is, and a person has a choice of going there or going back to earth, I think it makes sense that the person needs to know what it's like over there before he/she uses the one-way ticket :cool:.
It's not like you have a choice in the matter.
Quote:
Oh, I don't mean expecting unlimited pleasure in an ideal "heaven", but just some basic human pleasurable activities such as good food, beverages, good music, and good sex
. I don't think too many people would honestly believe that these are not important aspects of our lives. Granted, when people get old or sick or not feeling well, there might be no sex drive or the desire to listen to music or enjoyment of food.
If you were in a state of spiritual bliss, I hardly think that any physical pleasures would be neccessary or even satisfying.
When you come right down to it, all the things you described are temporary and fleeting.
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