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Logical explanation: why a god must exist

 
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 08:19 am
@MattDavis,
well ok then tell me whats logical about faith?
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 08:22 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Faith in what?
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 10:11 am
@MattDavis,
just plain faith
faith that I will win the lotto next wenday
faith that a God exists
faith that Ill find true love
plain old faith my question to you is
Can you tell me how is faith logical?
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 10:15 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
"Faith" in the abstract is too broad a notion.
There are circumstances where it may be logical, there are circumstances where it may be illogical.
We must also reach agreement regarding how we define 'logic' and how we define 'faith'.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 10:55 am
There is a valid distinction to be made between blind faith, and informed faith. Believing in a deity without a scarp of evidence is blind faith; believing you'll win the lottery while ignoring the millions-to-one probability against winning is blind faith. On the other hand, proceeding through an intersection when you have the green light based on experience of the behavior of many, many drivers is informed faith. I came very close to being killed one night when an idiot driving at excessive speed ran a red light into an intersection i had just entered. I survived because of good reactions--but i didn't get in the habit of stopping at the entrance of an intersection even though i had the green light, because that was one contradictory experience out of many, many thousands of confirming experience.

Talking as though all examples of faith were known, identical commodities is either naïve or willfully disingenuous.
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 10:58 am
@MattDavis,
ok how do we define it?
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:00 am
@Setanta,
Hi old friend yes I guess in this case im talking about blind faith
is blind faith logical?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:12 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Not if you either don't know the odds, or ignore the odds against the probability you hope for (as in winning the lottery).
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:23 am
@Setanta,
ok so back to what I was saying "Its a loaded question" . "logical explanation why a God must exist." Thats saying "Theres a logical reason Behind blind faith"
Blind faith is not logical
ooh by the way I just came back from cashing in my lotto ticket for yesterday I won 14 bucks Big yays for blind faith Smile
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:26 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
The odds against you winning $14.00 and winning the multi-million dollar prize would be considerably different by orders of magnitude. Do you ever actually check the odds?
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:32 am
@Setanta,
Faith makes you feel good I can dream about being a millionare.
or I can dream that when I die there will be a God there to gret me.
so to me why a God must exist well because If I believe it so
I feel good
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:44 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
I have no problem with that kind of faith so long as it doesn't cause you to hurt people in the cause of spreading the faith.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:46 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
There's nothing wrong with that, as far as i can see. Of course, if you're spending the money you need to feed the kids in order to play the lottery, that's not such a good thing at all. If believing in god makes you feel good, but it also makes you hate homosexuals, or interfere with women who want an abortion, that's also not a good thing.
MattDavis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 11:51 am
@Setanta,
God! How it pains me to agree with you! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 01:40 pm
@Setanta,
hehe now were talking about religion thats a whole different subject lol
0 Replies
 
north
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 02:11 pm

There isn't one
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Mar, 2013 02:13 pm
@north,
Quit bursting my buble Sad
0 Replies
 
Horselord
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 01:23 am
Regarding the Prime Mover, whatever its nature.

Common sense says that there can be only one of two explanations: it either always existed or said “Shazam” and created itself just because it felt like it. You have to say one or the other. Probably the first: as you’ll want to quote the prophet Einstein about time because it sounds more scientific.

But if you do quote Einstein, the problem gets worse, not better. For the first thing to always exist, it must not be subject to time. Therefore for it to be timeless, it would have to remain motionless and inactive. It would also have to be unique and alone as any other entity would create space between them and if it reacted with it, energy would be generated. It would have to be a singularity with no components internally that would react with each other for the same reason. No energy, no mass, no space: therefore no time. While it remained like that it could remain immortal. Anyway, since light needs energy, the speed of light equals zero. So where does the Emc2 come from?

But for the Mover to move would require a triggering mechanism which it did not have. To rupture into the Big Bang and create would require an incomprehensible store of energy which it did not have either. Seems to me that an immortal egg cannot create. And an egg capable of creation cannot be immortal. It cannot be both. So what is left? Pallo Loco?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:18 am
@Horselord,
There are 2 ways of looking to the whole of the Universe/Multiverse whatever one you want to pick is fine by me...getting back to perspectivism one is from inside time where you have this circular big bounce jigsaw going on forever, and another, outside it, where all space/time exists ensemble in a closed loop...so no need for starters nor creators, and even movement you can throw it out of the window for all that I care...

...oh by the way God if all Powerful, being everything, could not create anything, and if being less then everything, wouldn't be all powerful, and thus necessarily just another incomplete agent looking for truth... thinking has that purpose as it requires doubt and lack of knowledge...perfect beings don't need to think, they are the reason why others have thoughts...
imans
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:21 am
@Horselord,
what is left is the only thing existing objectively, that is why existence is forced to any, what is left is what u r forced to b relative to since somewhere at zero point u r aware so relatively existing

the problem take always the same shape, how u cant but mean urself in meanin all and truth
what is left is not u nor ur kind, it is the truth so the only fact and all relativity to

nature is nothing at all nothing to anything nothing to any freedom nothing to any existence nothing to any truth nothing to any futurpast nothing to any present nothing to any conscious, nature is **** that is nothing at all

so ur cheap way of usin the word nature dip it in urs

what is left is freedom, freedom for possible superiority which is the truth

truth is what grant possible superiority always always

freedom that buy some of it for fun or right is the livin true existence while subjectively always free

when there is nothing there is then u sayin it, then that u if u mean it really clearly would b shown related to smthg objectively so nothing become smthg, then relativity to that would b everywhere while there could b more a thing out of smthg that truth would set its relativity to the truth and not to nothing

it is too clear to me how all ur beliefs are for ur will, the will to kill the truth too happy of thinkin that the easiest way work

u cant kill the truth

when nothing exist then less to smthg become a lot so objectively it would b shown clearly true existence as being too much creations of a lot

this is also how truth matter to resolve right issues of its own terms and not on nothing terms

so always there is nothing and a plus always
u can choose being nothing but after u recognize the plus clearly as true superiority existin of possible truth so u can ask to b in truth, ur right

u can choose to b a plus but after uve been nothing, so bein the possible superiority so true plus

u can decide not to choose existing, here is where i stand, so u found urself abused from all sides nothing and truth till true existence would admit ur right too
 

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