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Philosophy of linguistics as science

 
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:43 pm
Naom Chomsky proposed that people have a template of "universal grammar" ingrained in a "special module" in their brain from birth. That is, people are born already KNOWING the complex rules of grammar in which one patterns words to make sentences, also known as syntax. How else would a child be able to quickly learn how to use the their LEARNED vocabulary in sentences? This is a claim of "cognitive science."

Karl Popper, a philosopher of science asserts that something must be falsifiable, or in other words, testable, in order to be distinguished as science from non-science.

Some linguistic theorists believe that Chomsky's hypothesis, the innate template for grammar, cannot be classified as a science because it is not testable. Is this theory testable? That is, is there a way to test if humans have this so-called template? If so, in what way?
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kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:50 pm
@Brandi phil,
Brandi;170203 wrote:
Naom Chomsky proposed that people have a template of "universal grammar" ingrained in a "special module" in their brain from birth. That is, people are born already KNOWING the complex rules of grammar in which one patterns words to make sentences, also known as syntax. How else would a child be able to quickly learn how to use the their LEARNED vocabulary in sentences? This is a claim of "cognitive science."

Karl Popper, a philosopher of science asserts that something must be falsifiable, or in other words, testable, in order to be distinguished as science from non-science.

Some linguistic theorists believe that Chomsky's hypothesis, the innate template for grammar, cannot be classified as a science because it is not testable. Is this theory testable? That is, is there a way to test if humans have this so-called template? If so, in what way?


Could we not test whether this template appears in different language speakers?
Jebediah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:53 pm
@Brandi phil,
I think this is an interesting subject...the impression I get is that people say Popper was a philosopher and not a scientist, and that science cares more about things supporting a theory than whether it can be disproven.

I don't know about a universal grammar though. We certainly have a part of the brain focused on language, that has to be stimulated in a certain way by a certain age. I don't see why it would be innate necessarily.

Quote:
Could we not test whether this template appears in different language speakers?


I suppose if we were holding falsifiability as the standard though, the fact that the template appears in all different languages would not be good evidence--because it might not appear in a new language. I think it would be pretty good evidence though, and people saying otherwise should come up with an counter explanation, so we can progress.
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:56 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170208 wrote:
Could we not test whether this template appears in different language speakers?


Supposedly it does because all languages have the same concepts of grammar such as subjects, direct objects, etc. However, it is problematic because how could a child be born with the template to learn every language's grammars?
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:59 pm
@Brandi phil,
Brandi;170216 wrote:
Supposedly it does because all languages have the same concepts of grammar such as subjects, direct objects, etc. However, it is problematic because how could a child be born with the template to learn every language's grammars?


Why couldn't he? Every normal child is born with a capacity to learn to play chess, so far as is known.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:02 pm
@Brandi phil,
It is tested everytime a baby is born. It is supported every time someone get wernicke's aphasia after a brain injury. The only tests that could be manufactured (blind) are unethical. Lock a child in a soundproof box until s/he's 12 and beat people over the head. Although these have both been done, just not in a controlled environment.
0 Replies
 
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:02 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;170219 wrote:
Why couldn't he? Every normal child is born with a capacity to learn to play chess, so far as is known.

They are born with the CAPACITY. This is different. Chomsky believes we have a template, or that we are born with the rules of syntax; that is, we are born with grammar that tells us how to use the words we've learned in sentences. I believe that we all have the capacity to learn language, if we do not have any damage to the language centers of our mind, but I am not sure about the template.
0 Replies
 
Huxley
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:03 pm
@Jebediah,
If this is the case, then I would expect all languages to exhibit similar syntactic structure. So, before looking for syntax modules in the brain, I would ask the linguists if all languages share the same syntactic structure, and if not, would it be possible to resolve all languages into a universal syntax in the first place. If not, then not. If so, then... I'm not quite sure how one would test that in a definitive way. My first thought was to use brain scanning devices, but I don't know how you'd be able to differentiate between syntax use and other linguistic terms in terms of brain-scan read outs.

I generally think of linguistics as more of an art and less of a science.
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:04 pm
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;170213 wrote:
I think this is an interesting subject...the impression I get is that people say Popper was a philosopher and not a scientist, and that science cares more about things supporting a theory than whether it can be disproven.

It wouldn't be a very good theory if it could be falsified automatically. But I think that a theory should be testable and make predictions. I don't think that there is a way to test this template. It reminds me a bit of philosophy of mind.
Jebediah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:09 pm
@Brandi phil,
Brandi;170227 wrote:
It wouldn't be a very good theory if it could be falsified automatically. But I think that a theory should be testable and make predictions. I don't think that there is a way to test this template. It reminds me a bit of philosophy of mind.


For these kind of things, don't they often say "if this theory is true, then this and this should also be true"? They make predictions and then research to see if the predictions are true. The periodic table predicted that there would be elements with certain features, and sure enough they later discovered them and they had those features. They do this a lot in astronomy I think.

I don't know why someone would say that astronomy isn't science.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:12 pm
@Jebediah,
Most serious theoretical linguistics still searching for universals have moved past syntax to cognitive semantics Cognitive semantics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
0 Replies
 
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:15 pm
@Huxley,
Huxley;170225 wrote:
If this is the case, then I would expect all languages to exhibit similar syntactic structure. So, before looking for syntax modules in the brain, I would ask the linguists if all languages share the same syntactic structure, and if not, would it be possible to resolve all languages into a universal syntax in the first place. If not, then not. If so, then... I'm not quite sure how one would test that in a definitive way. My first thought was to use brain scanning devices, but I don't know how you'd be able to differentiate between syntax use and other linguistic terms in terms of brain-scan read outs.

I generally think of linguistics as more of an art and less of a science.


Interesting. I think all languages have different structure, but the same basic concepts that make it up. How would a language that is developed in the far corners of the globe where no one ever travels have the same basic concepts as English, Japanese, Russian, etc. All of these use different ways to put their sentences together, but they still have subjects, direct objects, verbs, etc.

Is it possible that it is just as you say, an art? In that, maybe the linguists just classified it into a category and it is just language of humans just as dolphins have their own language. Maybe it would be beneficial to look into whether or not different species of whale have similar communications. Or would I be ascribing to universal grammar in thinking this might be the answer, in effect going in a circle?

---------- Post added 05-28-2010 at 08:19 PM ----------

Jebediah;170229 wrote:
For these kind of things, don't they often say "if this theory is true, then this and this should also be true"? They make predictions and then research to see if the predictions are true. The periodic table predicted that there would be elements with certain features, and sure enough they later discovered them and they had those features. They do this a lot in astronomy I think.

I don't know why someone would say that astronomy isn't science.


Yes, and Popper agrees that science must make predictions as well, but he also thinks it has to be testable. I don't know if universal grammar can be tested. This, I guess, would be Popper's point in saying that universal grammar is not scientific.
0 Replies
 
QuinticNon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:16 am
@Brandi phil,
Of course there is a "universal grammar" ingrained into humans. But it is not from a "special module". It is from a "special molecule". DNA.

We must understand that all life is a product of language... Codified Information.

Nucleotide = Character
Codon = Letter
Gene = Word
Operon = Sentence
Regulon = Paragraph
Chromosome = Chapter

There is a complete communications protocol taking place between DNA and RNA. A little conversation taking place that we can listen in on. It is not speaking to us. It speaks us into existence.

#1 - Ask a question.
How do humans possess the ability to construct and use language?

#2 - Do Background Research.
For the past 30,000 years, spoken language has been a documented capability in human beings, across multiple geographic regions and various cultures.

For the past 6-8 thousand years, written language has been documented to exist across multiple geographic regions and various cultures.

All known life forms share the necessity of having a genetic code.

DNA was discovered to be a code by Yockey and Gamov, as it fulfills the formal definition of code put forth by Purlwitz, Burks and Waterman of probability space A mapped to probability space B, and, the transcription process between DNA/RNA fulfills the communications protocols set forth by Claude Shannon in his book A Mathematical Theory of Communication.

All known forms of life are impossible without a genetic code.


#3 - Construct a Hypothesis
A template of "universal grammar" exist within human beings because humans are living creatures and the fundamental basis of all life is a genetic code. Therefor, the genetic code IS a universal grammar.

#4 - Test Hypothesis with Experimentation
Every biology and genetics researcher and facility has completed a myriad of experiments to confirm that humans and all life forms on earth have a genetic code as the underlying foundation to explain their existence.

#5 - Analyze Data and form Conclusion
Every life form on earth has a unique and individual code that forms within hours of initial conception. This code has been discovered to instruct all aspects of a beings physical manifestation including everything from sex, race, and eye color, etc...

Therefor, language is required for life to exist, and since the process of DNA/RNA transcription is identical for all mammals, it can be said that a "universal grammar" is responsible for mammalian life forms.

#6 - Communicate Results
I just did.

It passes the Iterative Process because it is repeatable and consistent across multiple experiments.

It is Falsifiable by acknowledging the only difference between life and non-life is the existence of codified information combined with transcription into protein. Or by discovering a life form that does not require a genetic code to explain its existence.

___________________________

Special Considerations

Though it can be stated that all life forms do rely upon a "universal grammar" as the foundational mechanism to explain their existence, that does not necessitate the ability to understand or add to that original source of codified information.

A beings conscious awareness is directly scalable to that beings ability to embrace, understand, and author descriptions of observable phenomenon.

A Honey Bee is only consciously aware to the degree that its figure 8 waggle dance allows it to communicate the location of pollen, wind drift, distance, quality of pollen, and a suggested optimal route to finding it. The Bee must create new words to describe additional observable phenomenon in order to increase its conscious awareness of the world it lives in.

Same can be said for Whale Song, Wolf Howls, or any other creature that is capable of describing its surroundings and communicating that description with others of the same species.

Humans, are unique in their ability to create new words to describe new observable or theoretical phenomenon.

The protocols of DNA/RNA transcription are identical to every other known language from English to Chinese to Binary. It abides by all the known rules of syntax, semantics, error correction, redundancy, and alphabet mapping from space A to space B.
0 Replies
 
Razzleg
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:58 am
@Brandi phil,
Brandi;170203 wrote:
Naom Chomsky proposed that people have a template of "universal grammar" ingrained in a "special module" in their brain from birth. That is, people are born already KNOWING the complex rules of grammar in which one patterns words to make sentences, also known as syntax. How else would a child be able to quickly learn how to use the their LEARNED vocabulary in sentences? This is a claim of "cognitive science."

Karl Popper, a philosopher of science asserts that something must be falsifiable, or in other words, testable, in order to be distinguished as science from non-science.

Some linguistic theorists believe that Chomsky's hypothesis, the innate template for grammar, cannot be classified as a science because it is not testable. Is this theory testable? That is, is there a way to test if humans have this so-called template? If so, in what way?


I've always wanted to know more about Chomsky's insights, but I haven't worked my way around to him yet. This notion intrigues me, and I may have to get to him more quickly.

How does he deal with the fact that there are so many grammatical differences between languages? English has six tenses, Russian has two, and classical Greek had seven. In English, word order is an important signifier of the role a word is playing in a sentence, but in Latin suffixes indicate the word's role and word order plays a much less significant part. In French articles denote gender, but articles in English are neuter. Ancient Greek writing did not leave spaces between separate words, but modern Spanish does.

Some of these grammatical peculiarities are insiginificant when one text is being translated from one language to another, some translations require a complete reworking of the text. Translation not only occassionally makes use of words with slightly different meanings, it also sometimes has to subsitute words with entirely different referents to communicate the concept at hand. Or here is another problem on another track entirely: If an American untrained in classical Greek were given a list of Greek vocabulary with English definitions, could they form a sentence with the words that an ancient Athenian could realistically have read? Or could they correctly translate a sentence from Plato into English with just this same vocabulary crib sheet? Could a modern Greek speaker without a background in classical Greek translate a sentence from the Dialogues? Could they write a grammatically correct classical Greek sentence? How successfully will I be able to diagram a sentence from Chaucer without a similar crib?

Could I determine which word was the noun in a simple sentence, and which word was the verb, without knowing the language in which they spoken or written. To what degree does meaning impact grammar (and vice versa,) and to what degree is meaning tied to a specific cultural context?

Also, I question the degree to which infants, children and adults do speak in sentences, much less in grammatical sentences. Many of the means by which we demarcate and organize sentences in writing do not exist in speech. My main example is obviously punctuation. While we might teach children that a period separates two distinct sentences in language's written form, and that it also might indicate a hypothetical pause in speech, this "pause" is imaginary. We often speak in run-on sentences without distorting our meaning. Likewise we often speak in incomplete sentences, and rely on context and gesture to complete our thought. Our interlocutors often understand us anyway. And in fact, when we first "teach babies to speak" we use single words and gestures almost exclusively.

While an infant slowly fills out her vocabulary, to what degree is she absorbing the words' grammatical use, and to what degree is she learning how to use words through practice without reference to any rule other than efficacy?

I am not attacking any particular viewpoint, but the above are questions that came to mind while I was reading this. I'm assuming that these are not unique or unexpected questions. What were Chomsky's response to them (in brief, of course?):Cara_2:
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 09:32 am
@Razzleg,
Razzleg;170305 wrote:
I've always wanted to know more about Chomsky's insights, but I haven't worked my way around to him yet. This notion intrigues me, and I may have to get to him more quickly.

How does he deal with the fact that there are so many grammatical differences between languages? English has six tenses, Russian has two, and classical Greek had seven. In English, word order is an important signifier of the role a word is playing in a sentence, but in Latin suffixes indicate the word's role and word order plays a much less significant part. In French articles denote gender, but articles in English are neuter. Ancient Greek writing did not leave spaces between separate words, but modern Spanish does.

Some of these grammatical peculiarities are insiginificant when one text is being translated from one language to another, some translations require a complete reworking of the text. Translation not only occassionally makes use of words with slightly different meanings, it also sometimes has to subsitute words with entirely different referents to communicate the concept at hand. Or here is another problem on another track entirely: If an American untrained in classical Greek were given a list of Greek vocabulary with English definitions, could they form a sentence with the words that an ancient Athenian could realistically have read? Or could they correctly translate a sentence from Plato into English with just this same vocabulary crib sheet? Could a modern Greek speaker without a background in classical Greek translate a sentence from the Dialogues? Could they write a grammatically correct classical Greek sentence? How successfully will I be able to diagram a sentence from Chaucer without a similar crib?

Could I determine which word was the noun in a simple sentence, and which word was the verb, without knowing the language in which they spoken or written. To what degree does meaning impact grammar (and vice versa,) and to what degree is meaning tied to a specific cultural context?

Also, I question the degree to which infants, children and adults do speak in sentences, much less in grammatical sentences. Many of the means by which we demarcate and organize sentences in writing do not exist in speech. My main example is obviously punctuation. While we might teach children that a period separates two distinct sentences in language's written form, and that it also might indicate a hypothetical pause in speech, this "pause" is imaginary. We often speak in run-on sentences without distorting our meaning. Likewise we often speak in incomplete sentences, and rely on context and gesture to complete our thought. Our interlocutors often understand us anyway. And in fact, when we first "teach babies to speak" we use single words and gestures almost exclusively.

While an infant slowly fills out her vocabulary, to what degree is she absorbing the words' grammatical use, and to what degree is she learning how to use words through practice without reference to any rule other than efficacy?

I am not attacking any particular viewpoint, but the above are questions that came to mind while I was reading this. I'm assuming that these are not unique or unexpected questions. What were Chomsky's response to them (in brief, of course?):Cara_2:


In response to paragraph 1: This is the main objection to his theory. This is what I would like to look at in more depth. How do we test that children are born with the knowledge with all of the languages in the world's complex grammar. Maybe the languages all have an underlying similarity? I don't know.

2: You are right; however, the claim is that there is a "critical period" in which people can "access" this template for grammar. The evidence is that children can learn second language grammar and pronunciation more easily than adults. In turn, adults learning a second language can learn the vocabulary better than a child.

More evidence that purports to prove the "critical period" is the fact that if a child matures without any language at all, it is impossible to teach them. Case examples include the 12 year old boy who was "raised" by wolves, and the 13 year old girl who was kept in a crib with no social interaction. However, this evidence is still very inconclusive. While the evidence may not be testable for ethical reasons, it does not mean that it is impossible to test.

4:
We do use single words, and the innate theorist would reply, how then does a baby know how to put that vocabulary into grammatical sentences. It is not like the parent teaches the child, "now, darling, we use 'a' to indicate indefiniteness, and 'the' to indicate definiteness." Moreover, we do not say, the past tense form of most verbs in English is -ed. They learn it on their own. One could argue that they are mimicking what they hear, but sentences are novel, it is improbable to hear the same sentence twice.

Do you think that all of this "science" is subjective because it is cognitive science and therefore distinguished from empirical objective science?

I would like to say that I do think this is a good hypothesis, how else do explain it? But I do not think it is testable in a scientific level. It is like consciousness, we cannot test it either. Maybe the tests have yet to be discovered as in Leibniz who theorized that everything was made of monads. At the time there was no way to test this hypothesis, but today it has been tested.
0 Replies
 
QuinticNon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 11:15 am
@Brandi phil,
There is a similarity between all languages and this includes the "universal grammar" of DNA ingrained into every individual human.

The similarities are:

#1 All languages are tools used to codify information.

#2 All languages fulfill Purlwitz, Burks and Watermans definition of code in that they satisfy either probability space A, probability space B, or both.

#3 All language tools that codify information must be capable of satisfying Claude Shannon's communication protocols adhering to set principles of syntax, semantics, error correction, noise reduction, redundancy, sender, receiver, and alphabet.

I'd go beyond calling these similarities. They are requirements.
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 11:21 am
@QuinticNon,
QuinticNon;170407 wrote:
There is a similarity between all languages and this includes the "universal grammar" of DNA ingrained into every individual human.

The similarities are:

#1 All languages are tools used to codify information.

#2 All languages fulfill Purlwitz, Burks and Watermans definition of code in that they satisfy either probability space A, probability space B, or both.

#3 All language tools that codify information must be capable of satisfying Claude Shannon's communication protocols adhering to set principles of syntax, semantics, error correction, noise reduction, redundancy, sender, receiver, and alphabet.

I'd go beyond calling these similarities. They are requirements.


Chomsky is not talking about DNA, or evolutionary traits. He believes that the HUMAN brain comes into existence with a preset knowledge of grammatical rules. He doesn't say how, but he gives reasons WHY it is the case.
0 Replies
 
QuinticNon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 11:54 am
@Brandi phil,
But that's the point of my reply. I'm offering you a predictable, testable, repeatable, falsifiable, HOW.

If he believes the Human brain comes into existence with a preset knowledge of grammatical rules, then it is worth consideration to acknowledge that the Human brain is the very product of grammatical rules. Those rules apply to DNA just as much as any other language, so he/we must include that proto-language in the discussion.

St. Louis researcher Wes Warren from Washington University's Genome Sequencing Center was interviewed about his latest findings on the Zebra Finch appearing in this Months Journal Nature.


Warren has demonstrated a different mechanism than mere "interactions of neurons within the brain". He seems to have discovered what causes those interactions to occur.


"We show that song behaviour engages gene regulatory networks in the zebra finch brain, altering the expression of long non-coding RNAs, microRNAs, transcription factors and their targets. We also show evidence for rapid molecular evolution in the songbird lineage of genes that are regulated during song experience. These results indicate an active involvement of the genome in neural processes underlying vocal communication and identify potential genetic substrates for the evolution and regulation of this behavior."

The implications of this are staggering, as

We once again find another use for the so called Junk DNA. It seems that when the Zebra Finch expresses a DESIRE to sing, that desire causes a change in sequence of the "long non-coding RNAs, microRNAs, transcription factors and their targets." And thereby, a change in that sequence, is the very mechanism which causes the "interactions of neurons within the brain".


"Two of the cDNA clones that measured the most robust increases27 align to an unusually long (3 kilobases (kb)) 3′ untranslated region (UTR) in the human gene that encodes the NR4A3 transcription factor protein (Fig. 4a). The entire UTR is similar in humans and zebra finches, with several long segments of >80% identity"
"These findings indicate that this NR4A3 transcript element may function in both humans and songbirds to integrate many conserved microRNA regulatory pathways."

"It has been proposed that ncRNAs have a contributing role in enabling or driving the evolution of greater complexity in humans and other complex eukaryotes32. Seeing that learned vocal communication itself is a phenomenon that has emerged only in some of the most complex organisms, perhaps ncRNAs are a nexus of this phenomenon."

DNA itself may in fact be controlling the language centers in the brain.
Brandi phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:04 pm
@QuinticNon,
QuinticNon;170421 wrote:
But that's the point of my reply. I'm offering you a predictable, testable, repeatable, falsifiable, HOW.

If he believes the Human brain comes into existence with a preset knowledge of grammatical rules, then it is worth consideration to acknowledge that the Human brain is the very product of grammatical rules. Those rules apply to DNA just as much as any other language, so he/we must include that proto-language in the discussion.

St. Louis researcher Wes Warren from Washington University's Genome Sequencing Center was interviewed about his latest findings on the Zebra Finch appearing in this Months Journal Nature.


Warren has demonstrated a different mechanism than mere "interactions of neurons within the brain". He seems to have discovered what causes those interactions to occur.


"We show that song behaviour engages gene regulatory networks in the zebra finch brain, altering the expression of long non-coding RNAs, microRNAs, transcription factors and their targets. We also show evidence for rapid molecular evolution in the songbird lineage of genes that are regulated during song experience. These results indicate an active involvement of the genome in neural processes underlying vocal communication and identify potential genetic substrates for the evolution and regulation of this behavior."

The implications of this are staggering, as
We once again find another use for the so called Junk DNA. It seems that when the Zebra Finch expresses a DESIRE to sing, that desire causes a change in sequence of the "long non-coding RNAs, microRNAs, transcription factors and their targets." And thereby, a change in that sequence, is the very mechanism which causes the "interactions of neurons within the brain".


"Two of the cDNA clones that measured the most robust increases27 align to an unusually long (3 kilobases (kb)) 3′ untranslated region (UTR) in the human gene that encodes the NR4A3 transcription factor protein (Fig. 4a). The entire UTR is similar in humans and zebra finches, with several long segments of >80% identity"
"These findings indicate that this NR4A3 transcript element may function in both humans and songbirds to integrate many conserved microRNA regulatory pathways."

"It has been proposed that ncRNAs have a contributing role in enabling or driving the evolution of greater complexity in humans and other complex eukaryotes32. Seeing that learned vocal communication itself is a phenomenon that has emerged only in some of the most complex organisms, perhaps ncRNAs are a nexus of this phenomenon."

DNA itself may in fact be controlling the language centers in the brain.


I wouldn't argue that DNA is not the underlying culprit for controlling language in the brain.

However, the two competing theories are evolutionary language acquisition and the innatist theory; they are two distinct theories. Maybe your evidence is the connection between them both. However, I don't see grammatical rules in Animal communication. If we could take a look at the gene that both animals and humans would be predicted to have, and know for a fact that one was just turned on for grammatical rules and the other off, I would be convinced.
QuinticNon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:10 pm
@Brandi phil,
Brandi;170423 wrote:
However, I don't see grammatical rules in Animal communication.


Honey Bees communicate the location, distance, and quality of pollen with the figure 8 waggle dance. It follows every protocol of every other known language. It conforms to all specifications I listed above. It also encodes for wind drift and maps out an optimum route to the pollen.

Brandi;170423 wrote:
If we could take a look at the gene that both animals and humans would be predicted to have, and know for a fact that one was just turned on for grammatical rules and the other off, I would be convinced.


Read the Nature journal article provided above.

It's becoming common place to discover genes that are turned on or off between humans and animals.

Primate Olfactory genes in human pseudogenes. They are turned off, but they are there nonetheless.
 

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