0
   

Crowded education

 
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 04:13 pm
Simple questions;
Do we learn better in a social environment or is the social the part that distracts us from our education?

Do we need people to learn better, quicker, fuller?

Is the distraction needed?

Define 'distraction' i suppose, as well as 'education', as well as 'social' (some groups are more social than others).

Simply put, is home-schooling good or bad?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,199 • Replies: 15
No top replies

 
jgweed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 06:54 am
@sometime sun,
I am not sure that the operative, or primarly, distinction that determines genuine benefits between home- or public-schooling is whether it is done in "private" or in a social situation. It may be that the teacher is more important, for example.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 11:18 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;118640 wrote:
Simple questions;
Do we learn better in a social environment or is the social the part that distracts us from our education?

Do we need people to learn better, quicker, fuller?

Is the distraction needed?

Define 'distraction' i suppose, as well as 'education', as well as 'social' (some groups are more social than others).

Simply put, is home-schooling good or bad?



Good questions

My feeling is that if I had to choose that the social aspect Helped or Hurt, I'd say "hurt"; although one can't deny the value of students (particuarly the young) learning how to relate/interact with one another. I don't know if this is part of the implicit intent of large-scale schooling, only that it does take place.

Home Schooling: I think it's probably better. Remember, we're not so much wanting to just poor information into heads (like filling up the glass), education's best achievement is to teach how to learn first, then establish those mental processes that spawn others towards maturity. It's hard for me to imagine how doing this en-masse is any more effective. Almost any scenario would favor less students per educator.

I'd actually need to think on this first. I'm compromised by my own experience (Public Schooled), so it's difficult for me to conceive of other pitfalls or advantages of the home-variety.

Thanks
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 08:34 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;118786 wrote:
I am not sure that the operative, or primarly, distinction that determines genuine benefits between home- or public-schooling is whether it is done in "private" or in a social situation. It may be that the teacher is more important, for example.

Yes i meant to omit the teacher, instead focusing upon the class and those we relate to or away from, we never (rarely) see the teacher as an equal and we can never (rarely) think to be the same as, whether we revere or dismiss the teacher it is rarely the teacher we are trying to impress more than we would a ready class, unless in the case of home-schooling where you have no one to either despise or worship. You have a teacher and yourself and unless a twin home-schooled you have no one to want to be better than or be worse than.
Is competiton in of the class needed? and what other things does a class give that we all need to grow and able to learn more efficiently?
And i doubt there is, but what could home-schooling give as a benefit that a class could not?

---------- Post added 01-10-2010 at 03:13 AM ----------

Khethil;118824 wrote:
Good questions

My feeling is that if I had to choose that the social aspect Helped or Hurt, I'd say "hurt"; although one can't deny the value of students (particuarly the young) learning how to relate/interact with one another. I don't know if this is part of the implicit intent of large-scale schooling, only that it does take place.

Home Schooling: I think it's probably better. Remember, we're not so much wanting to just poor information into heads (like filling up the glass), education's best achievement is to teach how to learn first, then establish those mental processes that spawn others towards maturity. It's hard for me to imagine how doing this en-masse is any more effective. Almost any scenario would favor less students per educator.

I'd actually need to think on this first. I'm compromised by my own experience (Public Schooled), so it's difficult for me to conceive of other pitfalls or advantages of the home-variety.

Thanks

Yes but how to learn is often by if not always example (apart from inspiration), we often cant imagine things, cant conceptualise unless we have been given an example and something to either aspire towards or to run like hell away from.
It is a balance of both home and class that i think is important we need the home to show us what genuine people are like and what the genuine have to offer and the job of the home to show (if at all possible) what is the detriment to the self by becoming mixed with those who are not genuine, but unless we are exposed to the nature of people, how are we ever to know our selves as more than just a part of a family unit, which although we all are part of a vast family there are many and far to many members of our family who want to be divorced and want to divorce you from yours.
How are we going to battle them if we cant even recognise them when they come with their illusions, just as how are we to recognise those of whom have love and welcome for us if we have never met them.
Family and friends and collegues are three different species we need to be familiar with all.
Just because we have had a bad time at school surely it is for us at home to then teach our family how to survive, not to be without or against.
Even birds know when to push out of the nest even if it kills them.

I hated school but i think it is necessary to at least know what it is worth hating in this world.
As with all things we hate we should at least be willing to try and change that hate into like. We cant change the world of hate by ignoring and choosing not to participate.

BUt this is coming from someone who would walk away from a class if i did not like its members before stopping to recognise the teacher.
It is a fact we need to be better than someone else in order to need to change and grow, the yard stick by which we measure ourselves is not ourselves, i worry that if all you have to try and be better than is a teacher you are likely to give up or just go along with it all far faster than if there was a little competition.
But at this point i would also like to say that competition is not all, something i find viewing American schools to be the root of their societies rot. Why Janis Joplin killed herself.
Life may be a competition but it is a truth that winning is NOT everything. Taking part as like life is supposed and is its own reward, we just continuously think that 'this is not my life' and that better is possible. Guess what life is life, the least you could do while you have it is live it. And be bloody grateful for it, instead of measuring it by all others standards as your own, guess what they aren't you either.
If you dont come 1st in America and alot of other places now, the more we become Americanised (this is not a term of endearment anymore and we wonder why, so sorry but not fully if i offend) the more the competition is not about competition, it is about status. Achievement itself is no longer about the equation it is the fact rather than what it took to ge there. People only want to know the answer they no longer want to figure it out.

I have never in my life understood why people cheat. Status i suppose. To be recognised for what? as what? something that you are not? I dont get it. Maybe if people could recognise themselves they might know how to recognise what is real.
Guess what, a cheat is not real but a cheat.
I just dont get it.

I went on a bit and a little off topic, nevermind.Smile

Back on topic, why do i want a classmate, why do i want someone to also not know as i do not know?
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Feb, 2010 10:33 pm
@sometime sun,
1) both, first lone study is good for deep thoughts, social study is good to resonate your thoughts, having others to test and try your thoughts is highly valuable.
Imo everybody who can think has a piece of the greater puzzle, so to speak. Even the most retarded or the madman.

2) we need to learn selfmotivation, not rely on external motivation.
- it's never either or, it's situational. Sometimes quick thinking will save lives, you can't spend days dwelling on how the best way to put out the fire if the house is burning.
- compulsive behavior is the bane of so many things.
- fuller, which all professinals would understand their own trade better. Once I was very sick as a child, and tryed 5 doctors ..all 5 had their own different oppinion of my illness.
Laws of human understanding, is it's very limited. Even if your education only takes 2 years, u'll never remember 100% of the teaching, less master it all.
When you have a longer education it gets worse, specially because they rarely bother to update their knowledge.

3) distraction in some cases might be good.
- build social networking might later be fruitful, education isn't life itself, only the journey towards an endgoal where you need friends to help if difficulties arise.

4) homeschooling might be overall bad, but in some cases nessesary should you not fit into the big crowd.
Karpowich
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 02:12 am
@sometime sun,
Social study brings social issues to the table. The world is not about one single organism, never has been, never will be. If we try to study subjects on our own, then what are we truly studying except our own views of reality? To truly understand the world and knowledge in general is to understand how others view it as well as yourself.
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 04:37 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;127320 wrote:
Sometimes quick thinking will save lives, you can't spend days dwelling on how the best way to put out the fire if the house is burning.

Yes but the person who invented the smoke alarm spent time (slow thought) which ultimately saves more lives overall.

HexHammer;127320 wrote:

Laws of human understanding, is it's very limited. Even if your education only takes 2 years, u'll never remember 100% of the teaching, less master it all.

Thats why some teach and some do.
HexHammer;127320 wrote:

education isn't life itself,
But life is nothing but an education.

HexHammer;127320 wrote:

4) homeschooling might be overall bad, but in some cases nessesary should you not fit into the big crowd.

You wont learn if you dont test.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 05:52 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;128231 wrote:
Yes but the person who invented the smoke alarm spent time (slow thought) which ultimately saves more lives overall.
LOL? Are you trying to be amuseing? I'm talking about putting out a fire, how should the firefighters know if all are evacuated from the burning house? Fires can spread, therefore it's usually nessary to put out the fire before it spreads and burn down an entire town.

sometime sun;128231 wrote:
Thats why some teach and some do.
Some teach and some do ...do what?

I know some akademic teachers, they prepare for their teaching, reread the pensum. It would defy the law of nature if other teachers could memorize several books and remember each word 1 year after 100%, then they would be geniousses ..savants/super savants, such people are rare, and hardly fits the relevance of this conversation.

sometime sun;128231 wrote:
But life is nothing but an education.
For you it may, but maybe you should study people more, and see how many reactionaries there are.

sometime sun;128231 wrote:
You wont learn if you dont test.
So noone can every learn anything if they'r by themselfs. Thought people could get wise in the libary in the days of old, studying books.
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Feb, 2010 05:57 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;128245 wrote:

Some teach and some do ...do what?

It was a semi joke.

---------- Post added 02-15-2010 at 12:02 AM ----------

HexHammer;128245 wrote:
LOL? Are you trying to be amuseing?

Always

HexHammer;128245 wrote:

and hardly fits the relevance of this conversation.

So would you mind telling me what the relevance is.
HexHammer;128245 wrote:

For you it may, but maybe you should study people more, and see how many reactionaries there are.

I study as many people who come into contact with me, whom i come into contact with, I'm studying you right now. And still learning something new.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 05:30 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;128246 wrote:

So would you mind telling me what the relevance is.

I study as many people who come into contact with me, whom i come into contact with, I'm studying you right now. And still learning something new.

- relevance is being constructive.

- and what have you found by studying me?
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 12:40 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;137461 wrote:
- relevance is being constructive.

- and what have you found by studying me?

Slightly in need of the deconstructive, but still dont think you are irrelevant even if you tend towards reduction retraction not construction expansion.
You're a bit of a wrecking ball.
And i can not fully understand why one would tare down a classic to make room for a mall.
Does this mean i think you are progressive?
Have i Still got some more to learn from you?
Of course i have more to learn, i am just not sure i want you as my teacher.
No offence.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 05:35 pm
@sometime sun,
Slightly in need of the deconstructive, but still dont think you are irrelevant even if you tend towards reduction retraction not construction expansion. Hehe, kinda flatterd ^^

You're a bit of a wrecking ball. Yes, unfortunaly I lack ALOT of diplomatic skills.

And i can not fully understand why one would tare down a classic to make room for a mall. What good is a pholosophy when it has roots in severly outdated principles?

Does this mean i think you are progressive? I have unmatched problemsolving skills, I tryed to leave a company 3 times, but the CEO called me back, because all his higly payed professionals with high education and such could't solve things as I could. This company had far over 300 people.

Have i Still got some more to learn from you? The one wine may taste just as good as the other.

I know not everything, I can only offer my humble pieces of the greater puzzle.


Of course i have more to learn, i am just not sure i want you as my teacher. In that you are wrong, you shouldn't consider me and my words as a teacher, but merely as a casestudy. You can get great inspiration from anything, everything ..which boils down to principles.

Bhudda got great inspiration from a simple music teacher sailing on a river telling his pupil "if the string is too lose it won't play, if it's too tight, it will snap", making Bhudda realize his ways were wrong, that starving himself to the path of enlightmen was a wrong choise.

No offence. Asking people to give an honest answer, and given in a good manner, I will never take it as an offence. :flowers:
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:34 pm
@HexHammer,
Honey, you are anything but humble.
Is it the knowledge that is humble?
Or is it humbly knowing?
This does not make you less though.
And any less of a teacher.
Teachers are supposed to know.
You just try to hard to control the lesson.
Some might say rightly so to control,
i would say you cant control what you dont know,
Maybe not even what you hold?
Existance existed is our teacher.
You exist you are a teacher.
You exist in my existance you make of me believer.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 08:35 pm
@sometime sun,
Honey, you are anything but humble. ~70% I may appear as a great tyrant and such, but ~25% of the time, I am actually humble (as I see it)

Is it the knowledge that is humble? Heavily depends on audience in what way the precive the knowledge, how deep they think and see the knowledge.

Or is it humbly knowing? Hmm ..apparently more of a poetic question.

This does not make you less though. I dunno.

And any less of a teacher. Then a whale is a teacher? A butterfly is a teacher?

Teachers are supposed to know. Not nessesarily, there's a lot teachers dunno, siencetist still searches for answers to finish the greater puzzle of knowledge, but what teachers should do, is to convery what we assume to know, and inspire the students to search for good knowledge, and cast aside the poor knowledge.

You just try to hard to control the lesson. Indeed, too many people are ruled by emotion, and those who are ruled by emotion ..are prone to fear.

Some might say rightly so to control,
i would say you cant control what you dont know,
Maybe not even what you hold? Unfortunaly in such philosophy forum such as this, we discuss matter with subjective results, if I could by superior result prove my assumtions, I may have greater success.

Existance existed is our teacher. Kids exist, are they teachers?

You exist you are a teacher. Some tribal person exist, never saw civilized civilization, never knew about TV, iron birds, telecommunication, guns ..etc, what kind of teacher is he?

You exist in my existance you make of me believer. Follow me only because of wisdom and intelligence, follow me not because of hope and illusions, follow me not through thick and thin, follow those who bring good wisdom, not the navelgazing poets, not the naive, not the ignorent.
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 09:23 am
@sometime sun,
Depending on the subject social and nonsocial setting are needed. For example in a more general classroom. lets say English, algebra, or history, subjects which aren't that hard for amateurs, then classroom can be a as big as the teacher wants it because everyone is able to learn these subjects. But in higher level subjects, like calculus, music theory, or some high science class, smaller classes are needed because these subjects are harder to understand and you need to already have a mind for it. The little environment of smart people around allows for more easy access of knowledge to flow.

But socially, education is more effective if the student learns around others, that's what education is for anyway, to help us live in the world, to help us understand the world and be able to live and associate appropriately among others.

---------- Post added 03-11-2010 at 10:41 AM ----------

sometime sun;118903 wrote:
Yes i meant to omit the teacher, instead focusing upon the class and those we relate to or away from, we never (rarely) see the teacher as an equal and we can never (rarely) think to be the same as, whether we revere or dismiss the teacher it is rarely the teacher we are trying to impress more than we would a ready class, unless in the case of home-schooling where you have no one to either despise or worship. You have a teacher and yourself and unless a twin home-schooled you have no one to want to be better than or be worse than.
Is competiton in of the class needed? and what other things does a class give that we all need to grow and able to learn more efficiently?
And i doubt there is, but what could home-schooling give as a benefit that a class could not?

---------- Post added 01-10-2010 at 03:13 AM ----------


Yes but how to learn is often by if not always example (apart from inspiration), we often cant imagine things, cant conceptualise unless we have been given an example and something to either aspire towards or to run like hell away from.
It is a balance of both home and class that i think is important we need the home to show us what genuine people are like and what the genuine have to offer and the job of the home to show (if at all possible) what is the detriment to the self by becoming mixed with those who are not genuine, but unless we are exposed to the nature of people, how are we ever to know our selves as more than just a part of a family unit, which although we all are part of a vast family there are many and far to many members of our family who want to be divorced and want to divorce you from yours.
How are we going to battle them if we cant even recognise them when they come with their illusions, just as how are we to recognise those of whom have love and welcome for us if we have never met them.
Family and friends and collegues are three different species we need to be familiar with all.
Just because we have had a bad time at school surely it is for us at home to then teach our family how to survive, not to be without or against.
Even birds know when to push out of the nest even if it kills them.

I hated school but i think it is necessary to at least know what it is worth hating in this world.
As with all things we hate we should at least be willing to try and change that hate into like. We cant change the world of hate by ignoring and choosing not to participate.

BUt this is coming from someone who would walk away from a class if i did not like its members before stopping to recognise the teacher.
It is a fact we need to be better than someone else in order to need to change and grow, the yard stick by which we measure ourselves is not ourselves, i worry that if all you have to try and be better than is a teacher you are likely to give up or just go along with it all far faster than if there was a little competition.
But at this point i would also like to say that competition is not all, something i find viewing American schools to be the root of their societies rot. Why Janis Joplin killed herself.
Life may be a competition but it is a truth that winning is NOT everything. Taking part as like life is supposed and is its own reward, we just continuously think that 'this is not my life' and that better is possible. Guess what life is life, the least you could do while you have it is live it. And be bloody grateful for it, instead of measuring it by all others standards as your own, guess what they aren't you either.
If you dont come 1st in America and alot of other places now, the more we become Americanised (this is not a term of endearment anymore and we wonder why, so sorry but not fully if i offend) the more the competition is not about competition, it is about status. Achievement itself is no longer about the equation it is the fact rather than what it took to ge there. People only want to know the answer they no longer want to figure it out.

I have never in my life understood why people cheat. Status i suppose. To be recognised for what? as what? something that you are not? I dont get it. Maybe if people could recognise themselves they might know how to recognise what is real.
Guess what, a cheat is not real but a cheat.
I just dont get it.

I went on a bit and a little off topic, nevermind.Smile

Back on topic, why do i want a classmate, why do i want someone to also not know as i do not know?




I agree, I agree,I agree. Cheating is foolish and, relating to education, is an impossible way to be educated in doing better and in understanding the subjects at hand. The practice of education is to teach you how to think and live but if you only practice being lazy and coping someone else, then how will you survive?
0 Replies
 
sometime sun
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 06:28 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;138492 wrote:
Honey, you are anything but humble. ~70% I may appear as a great tyrant and such, but ~25% of the time, I am actually humble (as I see it)

Let me see your humble, describe what you think humble is and how it can even exist when everything exists to insist and proove it exists.
Can you insist humbly?


HexHammer;138492 wrote:

Is it the knowledge that is humble? Heavily depends on audience in what way the precive the knowledge, how deep they think and see the knowledge.

Two three more.... people tell me the same thing, do i learn the same thing time and again or do i learn less or more?

HexHammer;138492 wrote:

Or is it humbly knowing? Hmm ..apparently more of a poetic question.

Which is more likely...
To hubly know?
To humbly get?
To humbly know not?
To humbly forget?
To humbly or not learn?
To humbly or not teach?
To humbly tell?
Or humbly preach?
Maybe just try humbly to speak?
HexHammer;138492 wrote:

This does not make you less though. I dunno.

But do you want to know? better yet do you need to know?

HexHammer;138492 wrote:

And any less of a teacher. Then a whale is a teacher? A butterfly is a teacher?

Yes, how else could you learn about whales or butterflys if they didn't teach you they were whales or butterflys?

HexHammer;138492 wrote:

Teachers are supposed to know. Not nessesarily, there's a lot teachers dunno, siencetist still searches for answers to finish the greater puzzle of knowledge, but what teachers should do, is to convery what we assume to know, and inspire the students to search for good knowledge, and cast aside the poor knowledge.

Ok so teachers are also supposed to know what they dont know.
A great teacher will lead you to answer them and for them.
We should ask the questions we dont have the answers to, someone might just have what we need, and if taught that their is need of fulfillment taught their is something we dont know, how good would it be if you could answer for just more than yourself, the best students become the teachers.
HexHammer;138492 wrote:

You just try to hard to control the lesson. Indeed, too many people are ruled by emotion, and those who are ruled by emotion ..are prone to fear.

Some people dont fear their emotions, some emotions disprove fear.
Is doubt an emotion?
Resonable doubt?
QUOTE=HexHammer;138492]
Some might say rightly so to control,
i would say you cant control what you dont know,
Maybe not even what you hold? Unfortunaly in such philosophy forum such as this, we discuss matter with subjective results, if I could by superior result prove my assumtions, I may have greater success.
HexHammer;138492 wrote:

You can have all the proof in the universe, you still need ot convince it.
Existance existed is our teacher. Kids exist, are they teachers?

Yes, they just dont know what they are teaching.
HexHammer;138492 wrote:

You exist you are a teacher. Some tribal person exist, never saw civilized civilization, never knew about TV, iron birds, telecommunication, guns ..etc, what kind of teacher is he?

A teacher of humanity.
HexHammer;138492 wrote:

You exist in my existance you make of me believer. Follow me only because of wisdom and intelligence, follow me not because of hope and illusions, follow me not through thick and thin, follow those who bring good wisdom, not the navelgazing poets, not the naive, not the ignorent.

You choose who, how or why people follow you,
just hope they dont follow to trip you up
and always expect they will overtake you.
(and its the star gazing poets who have brought them close enough to touch)

---------- Post added 03-12-2010 at 12:37 AM ----------

JPhil;138615 wrote:
Depending on the subject social and nonsocial setting are needed. For example in a more general classroom. lets say English, algebra, or history, subjects which aren't that hard for amateurs, then classroom can be a as big as the teacher wants it because everyone is able to learn these subjects. But in higher level subjects, like calculus, music theory, or some high science class, smaller classes are needed because these subjects are harder to understand and you need to already have a mind for it. The little environment of smart people around allows for more easy access of knowledge to flow.

But socially, education is more effective if the student learns around others, that's what education is for anyway, to help us live in the world, to help us understand the world and be able to live and associate appropriately among others.

What is to large a classroom and what is to small of one?
When we have a world that is to much for one alone and yet will never be quite big enough for everyone together.

JPhil;138615 wrote:

I agree, I agree,I agree. Cheating is foolish and, relating to education, is an impossible way to be educated in doing better and in understanding the subjects at hand. The practice of education is to teach you how to think and live but if you only practice being lazy and coping someone else, then how will you survive?

Do we learn to be lazy?
You will survive as vacume because you wont even own yourself.
But people who cheat are rarely concerned with self and soul concern.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
DOES NOTHING EXIST??? - Question by mark noble
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Crowded education
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 10/15/2019 at 11:06:34