Ten commandments/ A religious Symbol

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I will have to beg to differ with the A.C.L.U. on this one. The 10 commandments are not a religious symbol as I have been in many churches and I have not seen any blocks of stone
engraved with the only words spoken by God to man in any of their forayers. It should also be noted that no church has stepped forward and stated that would be willing to give
sanctuary too the stone engravings taken from the Georgia courthouse. The church leaders are trying to put as much distance between themselves and the word of God as possible. If
you don't believe me suggest to any of your pasters or church leaders that the church should install a stone monument in the church forayer with all the words of all ten commandments and let us know how much doubble talk you get, its just not going to happen

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Moses was a ventriloquist!

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Re: Ten commandments/ A religious Symbol

Ibredd wrote:

If you don't believe me suggest to any of your pasters or church leaders that the church should install a stone monument in the church forayer with all the words of all ten commandments and let us know how much doubble talk you get, its just not going to happen

I'll get right on that and report back with the results. Admittedly, though, I think I'll have some trouble locating the forayer in my local place of worship.

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Re: Ten commandments/ A religious Symbol

Ibredd wrote:

I will have to beg to differ with the A.C.L.U. on this one. The 10 commandments are not a religious symbol as I have been in many churches and I have not seen any blocks of stone
engraved with the only words spoken by God to man in any of their forayers.

Well, whether or not the words were spoken by god is a matter of personal belief, isn't it? BTW, what's a "forayer?"

Quote:

It should also be noted that no church has stepped forward and stated that would be willing to give
sanctuary too the stone engravings taken from the Georgia courthouse.

Perhaps because it was an Alabama courthouse?

Quote:

The church leaders are trying to put as much distance between themselves and the word of God as possible.

Has anyone read the Tonya Huff book "Second Summoning?" Great running gag on the "word of god!"

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Show me one origin of the ten commandments that was not religious.

Face it, it's a religious symbol. That fact doesn't really phase me or anyone else I know, but some people have adverse reactions to that. As far as I know, anything on private property is non-legislatable, but on public property it is. It doesn't even matter if it's religious or not - if the g'mnt says it goes, it goes.

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Re: Ten commandments/ A religious Symbol

Ibredd wrote:

I will have to beg to differ with the A.C.L.U. on this one. The 10 commandments are not a religious symbol as I have been in many churches and I have not seen any blocks of stone
engraved with the only words spoken by God to man in any of their forayers. It should also be noted that no church has stepped forward and stated that would be willing to give
sanctuary too the stone engravings taken from the Georgia courthouse. The church leaders are trying to put as much distance between themselves and the word of God as possible. If
you don't believe me suggest to any of your pasters or church leaders that the church should install a stone monument in the church forayer with all the words of all ten commandments and let us know how much doubble talk you get, its just not going to happen

The ten commandments come from a story in the old testament. The old testament is a religious document. It is the basis of Judaism and part of the basis of Christianity. The religious document states it is the word of g-d, and should be obeyed. You can't get much more clearly religious than that.

What kind of message does that send to people who are not judeo christian? Such a statue has no place in a secular court house, neither do exerpts from the Koran, Bible, scientology book, or any other religious document.

Our laws are based much more closely on the code of Hammurabi, the first publicly displayed written law (to our knowledge.) Which, if you're ever in the area, are on a stela next to the Lamassu in the Louvre.

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Ibredd, yes, it's a religious symbol, and no, they weren't the only words allegedly spoken by God. He gave Moses over 600 other rules to follow along with the Decalogue. My guess is that you could not list all ten commandments on a bet, especially since there is no consensus on what they are.

Moore's monument uses a Protestant list:

Quote:

I am the Lord they God
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy
5. Honor thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery
8. Thou shalt not steal
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness
10. Thou shalt not covet

The Catholic version omits the one about graven images and splits coveting:

Quote:

1. I AM the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep holy the Lord's Day.
4. Honor thy father and mother.
5. Thou shalt not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

Exodus 20 (NIV) goes into a bit more detail than the abridged version favored by Protestants:

Quote:

1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
13 "You shall not murder.
14 "You shall not commit adultery.
15 "You shall not steal.
16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

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Ibredd

I see you are trying to sell this nonsense here in A2K after your struck out with it in Abuzz.

The "10 Commandments" are most definitely a religious symbol.

Churches do display them.

The courts were correct in asking that the monument be removed.

And if you still think that churches do not teach the 10 Commandments, I suggest you get a copy of the Catholic Catechism and you will see that the decalogue is mentioned very often.

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The word i believe you want is foyer, although i believe that vestibule is more commonly used in reference to a church.

Ibredd wrote:

If you don't believe me suggest to any of your pasters or church leaders that the church should install a stone monument in the church forayer with all the words of all ten commandments and let us know how much doubble talk you get, its just not going to happen

Indeed, and it should certainly not happen in the judicial heart of any state's court system. I do not believe that there is such a word in English as "paster." The word i believe you want is "pastor." Ordinarily, i ignore misspellings such as this--we all make mistakes such as this, and it is just not good on-line conversational form. But i bring it up here because others have gotten on your case about your misspelling "forayer." I strongly suspect that those doing so knew what you meant. Given that you are posting something with which many, if not most, of those here will disagree, you are under an unfair, but nonetheless real constraint. If you will post things like this, it would probably be best if you could make sure of your spelling, punctuation and grammar, which i've noticed are somewhat slack, because you otherwise open your thesis to attack on a basis other than the content. If you can be certain that you've done so, you remove that opportunity for others to criticize without adressing the theme. Finally, i make typos all of the time, and there are many words about the spelling of which i am uncertain. Once again, i only bring this up to suggest to you that "cleaning up" your writing act will remove an obstacle to pertinent debate.

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If I ruled the world, "teh" would be an acceptable spelling for "the." Smile

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Hey, i'm the next benevolent dictator of Planet Earth, get in line, buddy . . .

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hobitbob wrote:

If I ruled the world, "teh" would be an acceptable spelling for "the."

Goddam Word keeps automatically changing teh to the.

I like teh better myself -- and I've managed to convince myself that it is because of the speed of my typing (the computer cannot keep up) -- and is a positive rather than a negative.

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Setanta wrote:

If you will post things like this, it would probably be best if you could make sure of your spelling, punctuation and grammar, which i've noticed are somewhat slack, because you otherwise open your thesis to attack on a basis other than the content.

Setanta<

I would add geography to your "make sure" list.

When I last studied the subject, Alabama and Georgia were not the same places. Rolling Eyes

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williamhenry3 wrote:

Setanta wrote:
If you will post things like this, it would probably be best if you could make sure of your spelling, punctuation and grammar, which i've noticed are somewhat slack, because you otherwise open your thesis to attack on a basis other than the content.

Setanta<

I would add geography to your "make sure" list.

When I last studied the subject, Alabama and Georgia were not the same places.

No, but they might as well be. Rolling Eyes

I group them into the category "those cousin marrying states," along with Arkansas, North and South Carolina, West Virginia, Virginia, Tennesee, and parts of Maryland. Wink

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Yankee bigot

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Yes I can understand that non church going people believe that the church going people are going to church in order to learn how to live by Gods Word, that is just not the case. The situation is that everyone hopes that the other person will do these things. The facts are that the Church leaders are terrified of the 10 commandments as they teach right the opposite of what is stated there, so if you hold up the 10 commandments to church people they will flee... AS noted above I have placed this situation in other forums and no one from any church has been able to step forword say yes there is a copy of the 10 commandments, the 10. version as noted above displayed in my church. No where in America is there a Church leader giving a series of studies on the 10 commandments nor is there any such sermon notes in any preachers files whre he has given such a series. So yes the Judge was wrongly accused!.

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Ibredd wrote:

Yes I can understand that non church going people believe that the church going people are going to church in order to learn how to live by Gods Word, that is just not the case. The situation is that everyone hopes that the other person will do these things. The facts are that the Church leaders are terrified of the 10 commandments as they teach right the opposite of what is stated there, so if you hold up the 10 commandments to church people they will flee... AS noted above I have placed this situation in other forums and no one from any church has been able to step forword say yes there is a copy of the 10 commandments, the 10. version as noted above displayed in my church. No where in America is there a Church leader giving a series of studies on the 10 commandments nor is there any such sermon notes in any preachers files whre he has given such a series. So yes the Judge was wrongly accused!.

IBREDD, that is absolute blather.

Go to a Catholic Catechism and you will see the "10 Commandments" preached and taught in excruciating detail.

It is your particular agenda that causes you to assert the opposite of that.

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Frank Apisa
Your Holy Roman Catholic Church Has their own version which I will call version 8.1 as they have done away with one, split another, and deleted most of the 4th. The Holy Roman Catholic put to death 50 million people from 538 AD to 1797 AD thats 40,000 per year for their protesting the fact that the Holy Roman Catholic Had destroyed Gods word, so no the Holy Roman Catholic Church will not have Gods 10 recommendations to be displayed in their Churches as they are still swimming in the blood of the saints on this one, it would be to much loss of face to post the real words of God. If you look more closeley they are teaching for doctrine The commandments of men, and not the words of God the Father.

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Ibredd wrote:

The facts are that the Church leaders are terrified of the 10 commandments as they teach right the opposite of what is stated there, so if you hold up the 10 commandments to church people they will flee...

You are a liar. There is no Christian church in the country that teaches its membership to worship other gods, make idols, blaspheme, forget the Sabbath, dishonor their parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, and covet.

Ibredd wrote:

AS noted above I have placed this situation in other forums and no one from any church has been able to step forword say yes there is a copy of the 10 commandments, the 10. version as noted above displayed in my church.

My church does not have a stone monument with the ten commandments, but they are depicted in one of the stained glass windows and are posted prominently in Sunday school classrooms.

Ibredd wrote:

No where in America is there a Church leader giving a series of studies on the 10 commandments nor is there any such sermon notes in any preachers files whre he has given such a series. So yes the Judge was wrongly accused!.

A web search for "ten commandments study group" returned 61,000 hits, including ongoing Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant church study groups, and I have personally heard sermons on them.

The Judge was rightfully accused.

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Ten commandments/ A religious Symbol

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