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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 09:04 am
Blog postings are quite nice as well.

Here are two by BlogPulse™ Campaign Radar 2004:

http://politics.blogpulse.com/04_09_27/graphs/20040928080039lEJKiwzh368UOhAevz97.png - http://politics.blogpulse.com/04_09_27/graphs/20040928080040jIpDQKaZWgNMjutcVteD.png
"Campaign Radar 2004 delivers daily analysis on politics, candidates and campaign-specific issues discussed on blogs commenting on the upcoming U.S. Presidential Election. All statistics in these trend charts represent the percentage of all blog postings relevant to the election/campaign."
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 09:44 am
From www.electoral-vote.com -

Quote:
The Los Angeles Times has a story on polling too. It points out, as most experts already know, that an incumbent president rarely gets even more than 1% of the popular vote than the final polls show. If an incumbent is polling, 47%, 48% just before the election, that is probably what he will get. In contrast, the challenger always does much better than the final polls indicate.


Experts: is this true? I'm looking at you, Nimhthelabratwholearnedtotalk!

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 12:21 pm
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 12:23 pm
Foxfyre wrote:



Seems to me I saw a study once that indicated Republicans lie about their sex lives more than Democrats.

I wonder if that accounts for the differences noted here????
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 12:26 pm
Well, speaking as a Republican, even if a rather weak one, I've never lied about sex. Smile
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 12:38 pm
Gallup 10/18: Bush 52%, Kerry 44% (LV) Bush +8

TIPP Tracking 10/18: Bush 49%, Kerry 45% Bush +4

WaPo Tracking 10/18: Bush 50%, Kerry 46% Bush +4

Rasmussen Tracking 10/18: Bush 47, Kerry 47 Tie

Zogby 10/18: Bush 45%, Kerry 45% Tie

RCP Average 10/18: Bush 49%, Kerry 45% Bush +4

IEM Last (13:00 CST 10/18): Bush .617, Kerry .389, AVG: Bush .602, Kerry .414 Bush +.015, Kerry -.015 re Avg

Cyc, the LA Times observes correctly that is is typical for an incumbent to not significantly exceed his final polling numbers. The observation that " ... the challenger always does much better " is less well supported by the available evidence. The article passingly acknowledges that the trendings both of Candidate Choice and of Presidential Job Approval are and have been not unfavorable to The Incumbent. My take is that The LA Times is bravely trying to shore up morale among the faithful, noting merely that statistically-by-possibilty, despite probability, all is not yet lost.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:05 pm
Quote:
Rasmussen Weekly Track 10/17: Bush 48.4%, Kerry 45.8%
Week-by-Week Numbers

October 17, 2004--In the latest Rasmussen Reports full week's polling sample, President George W. Bush holds a two-and-a-half percentage point lead over Senator Kerry.

This is the fifth full week sample in a row that shows the President ahead by two or more points. Prior to this stretch, neither candidate had been able to hold a 2-point lead for consecutive weeks all year.

For the week ending Thursday, October 14, Bush has 48.4% of the vote and Kerry has 45.8%. The President's numbers have not budged over the past five weeks. Senator Kerry gained just over half-a-point after the first Presidential debate, but that gain has disappeared.

This marks the 38th full week of polling since Kerry became the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination. Over the entire 38 week period, Bush has been ahead of Kerry by at least one point sixteen times. More significantly, as the election draws near, Bush has had such a lead for seven consecutive weeks

During the 38 weeks, the two candidates have been within one point of each other fourteen times. Kerry has been ahead by at least a point for eight of the 33 weeks (but not since August 19).


http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/RasWkly1014.jpg
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:13 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
Seems to me I saw a study once that indicated Republicans lie about their sex lives more than Democrats.

I wonder if that accounts for the differences noted here????


Dunno, Frank ... this from the poll:
Quote:
... Among the factors that impact the survey results is that more men identify themselves as Republicans and men are more likely to say they are sexually satisfied and enjoy sex "a great deal." Also, Democrats are more likely to be women; and the poll results show that women are more likely to fake orgasms. ...


would seem to imply women and Democrats are more likely to mislead regarding sex.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:16 pm
HA!!! That was good.... Never could figure why people fake orgasms and lie about sex.

<Come on women!!! Tell the damn truth!! You might get better sex!!>

<worked for me>
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:17 pm
If the moron, George Bush, had actually used all the opportunities for helping our country that were thrown his way during the last 3 3/4 years...nobody would be tracking anything in this race...because the moron would be blowing the doors off anyone running against him.

He has squandered ever opportunity given him...except for those he managed to turn from opportunity for positive to a huge negative for our country.

He is the worst president ever during my 68 years of living on this planet...and anyone willing to give him more time to damage us and our world even more ought to hang his/her head in shame.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:19 pm
Gonna vote Bush, then, Frank?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:20 pm
Lash wrote:
Gonna vote Bush, then, Frank?



As the thoroughly shaved go-go dancer said: No more Bush!
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 02:23 pm
Wouldn't it follow that those who lie most about sex would lie most about other things?

Wonder how that factors into the polling? If one party's veracity exceeds that of another's, couldn't that skew the polling results overall?

If this (really stretched) theory works out, we can assume maybe all those people who say they are voting for Kerry aren't going to vote at all or maybe they'll even vote for Bush?

But then again, don't men brag about their sexual prowess more than women do? So....that puts the Republicans at a disadvantage here. . .

Oh well. . .back to the drawing board.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 09:37 am
From my favorite....

www.electoral-vote.com

Quote:
Kerry keeps moving up in the electoral college. A new Survey USA poll shows he has now inched ahead of Bush in Florida, although his 1% lead means the state is still a statistical tie. Nevertheless, we now show Kerry with more than the critical 270 votes in the electoral college to win. Perhaps more signficant, though, is the fact that in states where Kerry's lead is at least 5%, he has 228 electoral votes. In states where Bush's lead is at least 5%, he has 183 electoral votes. Clearly the race is still wide open.


This one's gonna be a nail-biter to the end.

They count (today) Kerry 284 Bush 247, and that's with Ohio for Bush and Florida for Kerry.

Cycloptichorn
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:37 pm
FoxNews/Opinion Dynamics 10/19: Bush 49%, Kerry 42% (LV 3-Way) (Download note: 7 page PDF file)
Bush over Kerry among Independents 51-33, Men 49-42, and Women 47-43


Trend::
10/03-04: Bush 47, Kerry 45
09/21-22: Bush 46, Kerry 42
09/07-08: Bush 47, Kerry 43
08/24-25: Bush 43, Kerry 44

The poll's internals and their trendings appear encouraging for The Incumbent as well. Of particular note is the FN/OD poll consistently has shown Bush with less support than have several other major polls. This release is the first from this organization showing a lead for either candidate extending beyond the poll's stated Margin of Error.

Just for perspective, an interesting graphic from a blog I frequent::

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/Capture_10192004_142249.jpg

I ain't too worried about my manicure. I figure that a "Close Election" is gonna be just one more among many other unmet Democratic expectations.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 01:52 pm
Disturbing trend for the Dems. Who makes Prozac? I think I will buy their stock on Nov. 3 if Bush prevails again. Smile
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Oct, 2004 03:17 pm
New Polls Agree: Kerry Widens Gap Mr. Green

Tonight's WaPo Tracking poll: Bush 51%, Kerry 46%

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/Capture_10192004_161006.jpg
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:04 am
www.electoral-vote.com

Quote:
Wow! 41 new polls today. Zogby has released new polls conducted in the battleground states Oct. 13-18 and there is good news and bad news for each candidate. For Bush, the good news is that he is now leading in seven of the 16 battleground states (Arkansas, Florida, Nevada, Ohio, Tennessee, and West Virginia), his best showing ever in the Zogby poll. The bad news is that all of these leads are within the margin of error, so they are statistical ties. For Kerry, the good news is that his leads in Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington are all outside the margin of error, which ranges from 2% to 4%.

But there are other polls today as well. A new poll from the University of Cincinnati shows Kerry ahead in Ohio, 48% to 46%. Rasmussen's tracking poll shows Bush and Kerry tied at 47% each in Ohio, the first time Bush has not led there for weeks. ABC News says its Kerry 50%, Bush 47%, but Fox News says it is the other way: Kerry 45% and Bush 47%. On the other hand, Survey USA has Kerry ahead 49% to 47%. All in all, Ohio is a complete tossup at the moment; it could go either way. My rule is still: most recent poll (based on the middle date) wins, with ties resolved in favor of the shortest poll. If two or more polls with the same dates are most recent, they are averaged. Currently, The Fox/Opinion Dynamics poll is the most recent by 0.5 day, so it is being used today. The complete list of polls is given at the Polling data link to the right of the map.



Today's score:

Kerry 291 Bush 247

Timber, your Fox polls mean nothing... are you really surprised that such a conservative organization will consistently show Bush to have a lead?

Cycloptichorn
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:26 am
Wow, that's cool, Cycloptichorn!

I got an email thank-you a few days ago for donating to the Kerry campaign (yes, I've donated), that said they just had a strategy meeting and they had enough money to decide what to do based on what they thought was best rather than what they had money for. They kept suggesting things and the money guy would say go for it, we have enough.

So looks like they're going to/ have been going after some of the close races that they'd previously given up on. That's excellent.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Oct, 2004 10:45 am
Cyc, the Fox News Poll has not shown Bush to consistently have a lead, nor has it, when showing a Bush lead, shown as large a lead as say Gallup, Washington Post, or Newsweek. Note too if you will that the Fox News/Opinion Dynamics Poll Final for the 2000 election was the one that got both the spread - 0 points, and the percentage of popular vote - 48% ea - the closest of all the major pollsters. For the 2002 midterms, they outperformed Gallup, Zogby, Pew, and Harris. For the 2003 special elections, they called 4 out of 4 correctly. During this year's primary season, their track record was very good - aqmong other things, they were the first to indicate Dean was not a real player. They got laughed at for that call ... particulary garnering dismissive scorn from the Deaniacs.

Oh, and electoralvote.com hardly can be deemed non-partisan. As to the methodology there, they go with the most recent poll for each state, having found a brief experiment with averaging the 3 most recent polls rendered results which distressed their visitors. A much better picture, IMO, are offered by RealClearPolitics[/i][/u] and Dave Leip's Election Atlas. Over the past dozen years, among the best overall prediction performance - in terms of winner and vote share alike, primaries, general, and presidential elections, has been that of the Iowa Electronic Market.
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