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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:18 am
Yep, the CBS poll is pretty devastating, more so than the last Gallup/CNN/USA Today one ... here's some stuff from the write-up at cbsnews.com :

Quote:
Bush Gains In Post-Convention Poll

(CBS) One week after their convention, the Republican ticket of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney hold a seven-point lead over Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards among registered voters surveyed in a new CBS News poll.

The Republicans' gain in voter support comes about through two changes that appear to have happened at that convention - a major improvement in the President's approval ratings on handling terrorism (already the area where he scored best), and significant negative changes in perceptions of the Democratic nominee.

The Bush ticket's four-point post-convention gain in support comes in part from some weakening of Kerry support among Democrats, but especially from gains with independent voters. In this poll, for the first time since last spring, Mr. Bush holds a clear lead with Independents.

Nine of ten Republicans say they will vote for Mr. Bush, but only eight of ten Democrats now say they will vote for Kerry.

Kerry has lost support with other groups that had supported him prior to the Republican convention. At that time, Kerry held a seven-point lead over Mr. Bush among women. Now, support for Kerry among women has dropped 10 points, and Mr. Bush has a five-point edge. Male voters before the convention gave Mr. Bush a seven-point lead; his lead with men now is 15 points. [..]

Mr. Bush retains a clear advantage over his opponent in the strength of his support. 64 percent of Bush voters say they strongly support their candidate, compared to 43 percent of Kerry voters who say the same.

CONVENTION IMPACT: MAKING THE CASE ON TERRORISM

One of the largest gains for Mr. Bush comes in the public's assessment of his handling of the campaign against terror. Even before the convention, this was Mr. Bush's strength - even when his approval rating on the economy, the war in Iraq, and overall dropped below 50 percent, a majority continued to approve of this handling of terrorism.

The convention appears to have increased that approval rating even more. Mr. Bush registered gains in other areas (for the first time since April, a majority approves of how he is handling his job overall), but jumped nine points in approval of his handling of the campaign against terrorism.

Mr. Bush's approval rating on handling terrorism has increased significantly among Democrats since before the convention. Though most Democrats still disapprove of the President's handling of terrorism, 36 percent of Democrats now approve, up from 24 percent prior to the convention.

More Americans continue to disapprove than approve of Mr. Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, but there has been some improvement for him on this issue. Forty-five percent approve of his handling of Iraq, while 49 percent disapprove. Prior to the convention, 40 percent approved of Mr. Bush's handling of Iraq, while 54 percent disapproved.

Mr. Bush's rating on the economy has also improved. Forty-four percent of Americans now approve of his handling of the economy, compared to 37 percent prior to the convention.

The Republicans were not quite able to make the link between the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq. Just about half of the public now say the war in Iraq is part of the war against terrorism, but that belief has been stable for months. They were, however, able to convince more that the war in Iraq was the right thing to do; for the first time since April, a majority says the U.S. did the right thing getting involved in Iraq.

However, this poll was conducted mostly before the news of the U.S. death toll in Iraq reaching 1,000.

CONVENTION IMPACT: MAKING THE CASE AGAINST KERRY

The impact of the convention is seen even more clearly when looking at the decline in voter assessments of the Democratic candidate. For the first time since June, overall opinion of Kerry is negative, and while overall opinion of Mr. Bush is up for the first time since spring, the convention week appears to have had a greater impact on views of the challenger.

In addition, Kerry has lost a lot of ground on perception of his ability to handle terrorism and other foreign crises. The percentage that says they have not much or no confidence in Kerry's ability to make the right decisions about terrorism has risen 11 points, from 26 percent to 37 percent. Now just 26 percent say they have a lot of confidence in Kerry, while 47 percent have a lot of confidence in the President.

A majority of voters are now uneasy with the idea of Kerry handling an international crisis, and only 35 percent are confident about that prospect. While voters are closely divided over Mr. Bush in this regard, the President does enjoy a large edge over Kerry.

Kerry has also lost his lead on his ability to handle the economy, but neither candidate inspires much confidence here. Fifty-six percent remain uneasy about Mr. Bush's approach to handling the economy, and now a majority is uneasy with Kerry's approach, too. For Kerry, this is a reversal from before the convention.

Kerry has also dropped eight points on the perception of his leadership abilities. He now trails Mr. Bush on this measure.

The convention did give voters a sense of what Mr. Bush wants to do if re-elected. A majority of voters believe Mr. Bush has a clear plan for what he wants to accomplish in the next four years if he returns to the White House. Fewer than half say that about Kerry.

Kerry has even lost his (shrinking) edge on sharing voters' priorities. Now more voters say he does not than say he does, while assessments of Mr. Bush are mixed.

The Republican convention's success even went as far as to make Kerry, not Mr. Bush, appear to be the candidate who is more likely to be on the attack, a turnaround from a few weeks ago. By eight points, voters see the Bush campaign as explaining what it would do, not attacking Kerry.

BUSH'S BOUNCE IN PERSPECTIVE

Few incumbent presidents of the last twenty years have received much of a "convention bounce." In 1992, George H. W. Bush received a 2-point bounce, and Ronald Reagan received no bounce at all in 1984. In 1996, Bill Clinton enjoyed a 5-point rise in the polls. Before that, both Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan received significant bounces after their conventions. Still, in more recent history, the largest convention bounces have been received by candidates from the party not occupying the White House -- candidates who begin their conventions less well known to voters.

This year, however, Mr. Bush's post-convention gains exceed those of his Democratic challenger, who had the support of 49 percent of voters before the Democratic Convention, and 49 percent of voters afterwards. [..]
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:21 am
Hmm.

Meanwhile, I finally got my first Columbus-specific campaign email!! I'm so happy! I'm gonna go out there and DO stuff... finally!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:23 am
Noam Scheiber thinks that the Bush National Guard thing will work against Kerry, by further distracting attention from what the campaign should be about if Kerry still is to have any shot at turning the race around:

Quote:
People have already made up their minds about the president's character, particularly as it relates to military service. They think he found a not-quite-honorable, not-entirely-dishonorable way of avoiding combat in Vietnam, and, for the most part, they don't think that disqualifies him to be president. Short of a pretty big smoking gun (something on the order of, say, evidence Bush bought his way into the Texas Air National Guard), that's the way they're going to feel on Election Day, too--regardless of what dribs and drabs leak out between now and then. As a result, any day in which Bush's National Guard service is the dominant news story is a lost day for the Kerry campaign, since it's a day Kerry can't talk about the things that can improve his chances of winning, like Bush's attrocious record in office. [..]

This is true even if it's liberal 527s, rather than the Kerry campaign itself, that are focusing on Bush's Vietnam-era service. The media can only handle so many stories at once, and Kerry's message is the one likely to be lost. [..] On some level, then, the Bushies are getting a twofer out of their swift boat smear campaign: They drew blood on Kerry's character (which, unlike Bush's, was still an open question for most voters), and they sucker-punched Democrats, if not the Kerry campaign, into getting away from the issues Kerry needs to run on.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:23 am
Heya Soz - knock 'em dead
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:26 am
I dunno about Noam's take. What I love about the Guard thing is that it pretty effectively shuts up remaining SBVfT supporters -- seems to take that off the table pretty nicely. Did you see McGentrix's remarks in the "Texans for Truth" thread?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 11:41 am
Hmm ... MSNBC's First Read is sceptical, too. Partly for the same, partly different reasons.

I think I agree: I dont think people care as much about Bush turning out to have smudged his way through his guard service (they kinda suspected so already, anyway) than about Kerry, the War Hero, allegedly turning out to be no war hero at all. I mean, thats the case the SVFT put out there, and you gotta admit its more spectacular - thats why it took some time to catch on, but then did cut deep.

I mean it's always good to get 'em on the defensive. But it also actually keeps public attention on the whole theme they must by now have come to associate with the SVFT allegations: Vietnam-era military service performance. At best, the Guard thing can prove that Bush's wasn't impressive. Well, duh, and?

Look at it this way: Kerry said, vote for me, you know you agree with us more than with them and really, you can trust me - I'm a better man than that guy, look at what I did in Vietnam. The SVFT called out: but he's lyin' about all that! It responded to a core argument of the Kerry campaign. What does the Guard thing about Bush take away from what he's saying about why you should vote for him?

Mind you, I'm not entirely convinced that the Guard thing won't hurt Bush. He's been on such a roll lately, it can't hurt to throw a few nails in his way, try to slow 'm down, spanners in the wheels. The temptation to hit back in like response sure must be huge. But what does it prove?
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 12:08 pm
I got a question.

Does any polster, or any poster, think that Hurricane Frances would have some effect both on polls and on the final outcome?

Has anyone tried to split the effect, if any, of the hurricane and its aftermath, with the mediatic effect of the Republican convention, speciallly in Florida?
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 01:12 pm
nimh wrote:
Yep, the CBS poll is pretty devastating....


Ye Gods, you people are sssoooo skittish.

One bad poll and you're getting set to fold your tents. Exclamation

Here is the story.

The Kerry convention wasn't as successful as we thought. Carville has said so. It wasn't a disaster, it just wasn't all that great.

The Kerry teams answer to the Swift Boat attacks was inadequate. As a result, the Kerry people have been downgraded in influence and Carville and Clinton people have been brought in-the same folks who thought the convention wasn't so great.

Granted, the Kerry convention didn't give him much of a bounce. Bush seemed to get something of a bounce from his.

Post convention bounces generally last between 10 days to two weeks-so we are still in the Bush "bounce phase", which might be prolonged a bit because Saturday is the anniversary of 9/11, which for some reason is considered Bush's glory time.

Even in this Bush "bounce phase", and even with the Kerry team admitting to troubles in their campaign, in the last three days there have been four polls.

The poll margins are: 1, 2, 7, and 8 points. That comes out to a big 4.5 point average.

Sorry, I am not impressed by all this disaster talk. Bush is somewhat ahead, but the bounce is part of that 4.5 point lead. Almost two months to go, Kerry is probably about a point down if you eliminate the bounce.

Don't forget-historically the undecideds go for the challenger at the last moment. Granted there are fewer undecideds this year than normally, but still there are some.

I think it's ridiculous to talk, at this point, of Kerry needing someone to "save the day". He is doing all right, and isn't far behind.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 02:55 pm
nimh, yeah, I was thinking some of that after I responded -- it's a great rhetorical answer, it backs 'em into a corner because anything they say to condemn the Guard stuff goes for Swifties too, anything they say to support the Swifties goes for Guard stuff too -- but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually changes their minds. You'd think it would given their rhetoric about character, trustworthiness, etc., but a lot of the people who actually have argued in favor of SBVfT just aren't going to have their minds changed, voting wise. Period.

I dunno, throughout August was seen as down time, conserving resources, coming out swinging after Labor Day. I hope the ANG thing is the nail in the coffin for SBVfT, and then move on to other things.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 03:24 pm
Kerry = Dukakis
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 03:32 pm
georgeob1

Bush= Dumbell

So there. Nya,Nya, Nya.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 04:14 pm
From RealClearPolitics

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/3waybig.jpg

Not just "A" poll; RCP tracks and charts all the major polls, updating as new ones come out. Whatever Kerry and Crew are sellin', The Electorate ain't buyin' it.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:15 pm
What a weird couple of polls these last few days.

First, directly after the Republican Convention, there's Newsweek and Time giving Bush an 11% and 10% lead in the two-way race. That's like, a 14-19% bounce compared to late July (the last previous time Newsweek polled), and a 10% bounce compared to Time's pre-Convention poll.

Then, though, there was Gallup, which has been polling favourably for Bush. It too, had Bush up by a lot - 7% - but compared to the pre-Convention Gallup poll, that meant just a 4% bounce, hardly impressive. Plus, among all registered voters, the 7% lead shrunk to one of just 1%. ICR went even further, putting the race, on September 1-5, exactly at a tie, 46/46, among likely voters (with Kerry leading by two among registered voters).
Meanwhile, Rasmussen was insisting the new Bush lead was no less, but also no more than just 4%.

But then comes this new CBS poll, quoted above, and it's devastating. Bush leads by 8 points, which is an 11-point bounce compared to mid-August - and thats an 8% lead among registered voters, so its likely to be higher still among likely ones.

Add to that a new ABC/WaPo poll, three-way only unfortunately, I haven't posted it here yet. It has Bush/Cheney up by 9 points, 52% to just 43% for Kerry and sidekick. Among registered voters. That's also a 9% bounce compared to August 26-29.

But, no fear. There is one more new poll out today that has the race much closer again. Bush only leads by 2% in the two-way race in this one - among likely voters - and Kerry actually leads among registered voters, 46% to 43%. Who did this poll? Fox did.

We're on a rrrrrollercoaster rrride, kids ... !
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:25 pm
Fox?!

WheeeeEEeee!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 07:27 pm
Heh. Like I was posting on Dalythoughts just now:

Quote:
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2004 08:16 pm
A thought occurs re Nader's numbers; wunner if mebbe some of his support in the opinion polls really comes from Republicans, who will vote Bush on Nov 2, but who are interested in just keepin' Nader in the race as a spoiler... somethin' to think about, anyway.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 04:20 pm
Wow, there's a positive flurry of polls out there right now, like it's hailing them. And the last three out show a much tighter race again. After the Fox one, there's both Zogby and Democracy Corps (the latter admittedly a Dem pollster) also showing a Bush lead of just 2-3%.

This is what Zogby has (a straightforward national poll, none of that Interactive stuff; done Sept 8-9).

Numbers compared both to last week (during the Convention) and last month:

2-way:
Bush 47 (+1) (+4)
Kerry 45 (+1) (-5)


6-way:
Bush 46 (no ch.) (+3)
Kerry 42 (-1) (-5)
Nader 2 (-1) (no ch.)
Badnarik 1 (+1) (no ch.)
Peroutka and Cobb 0 (no ch.) (no ch.)

(WTF is Peroutka?)

And this is Democracy Corps, Sept 6-9, compared to last month:

2-way:
Bush 50 (+5)
Kerry 47 (-5)


3-way:
Bush 48 (+4)
Kerry 45 (-4)
Nader 4 (no change)

Fox News, Sept 7-8, compared to two weeks before:

2-way, likely voters:
Bush 47 (+3)
Kerry 45 (no change)


3-way, likely voters:
Bush 47 (+4)
Kerry 43 (-1)
Nader 3 (no change)

ABC/WaPo, Sept 6-8, compared to a week and a half before:

3-way, likely voters:
Bush 52 (+4)
Kerry 43 (-5)

Nader 2 (+1)

3-way, registered voters:
Bush 50 (+2)
Kerry 44 (-3)
Nader 2 (no change)

CBS News poll, Sept 6-8, compared to three weeks before:

Bush 50 (+6)
Kerry 42 (-5)


Mentioned earlier already (thats why I'll only repeat the 2-way race numbers), but also post-Convention, there was:

CNN/USA Today/Gallup, Sept 3-5, compared to one and a half week before:

Among likely voters:
Bush 52 (+2)
Kerry 45 (-2)


Among registered voters:
Bush 49 (+2)
Kerry 48 (no change)

ICR poll, Sept. 1-5, compared to a week before:

Among likely voters:
Bush 48 (+2)
Kerry 47 (-3)


Among registered voters:
Bush 46 (+2)
Kerry 47 (-4)

Newsweek poll, Sept. 2-3, compared to 29-30 July:

Bush 54 (+10)
Kerry 43 (-9)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 04:41 pm
Add another one, only 3-way numbers I'm afraid (so it wont show up in my graph):

AP-Ipsos poll, out today (done Sept 7-9):

Among likely voters (no comparative previous numbers available):

Bush 51%
Kerry 46%

Nader 1%

Among registered voters (compared to early August):

Bush 51% (+6)
Kerry 43% (-5)

Nader 2% (-1)

(Odd, in this poll Bush does better when a wider sample is used; usually (see above) it's the other way around.)
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 05:44 pm
What do you suppose happened to last week's 11-point bounce?

Here are some interesting state-by-state polls:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/colorado.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/ohio.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/north-carolina.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/virginia.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/florida.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/iowa.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/minnesota.png
http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/ohio.png

...and the reason why timber is so cranky lately:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/states/wisconsin.png
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2004 08:38 pm
Keep haulin' in them straws, PDiddie ... you've got less than two months to finish building Kerry's funeral pyre Mr. Green
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