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If you were a bookie... Polls and bets on the 2004 elections

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:16 pm
nimh wrote:
West-Virginia, now that was a state that wasn't, I think, on anyone's list of battleground states a couple of months ago ... ?

But now, its trending for Kerry.

In April, state polls there had Bush still in a relatively comfortable lead of 4-5 percent...

In the past 2 weeks, there has been a shift to Kerry among independents nationally, in New Hampshire, and now in West Virginia.


nimh, in all candor I no longer pay much attention to nationally surveyed polls, because we all know that is not how the President is elected. The numbers are inconsistent from month to month and from poll to poll and they do not reflect a condition that would have any meaning at all (were it not for the corporate media's attempt to coronate someone as far in advance of the election as they could get away with).

Of much more importance is evidence of states shifting from red to blue, as with New Hampshire and West Virginia, which you note.

WV, to use it as an example, has one of the highest, if not the highest, percentages of population deployed in war zones overseas. Its poor economy was battered by the downturn and is slower than normal to recover. It has, due to its concentration of union members, been a longtime Democratic stronghold in elections past.

Bush's breakthrough in 2000 was an aberration which won't be repeated. Count it for Kerry. Cool
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:31 pm
Graph update.

- Bush vs Kerry polls thus far
(using the ones without Nader):
[EDIT: this graph by now replaced with later update ...]

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-kerry_midjune.gif

- The average of the Bush vs Kerry polls, until June 10
(revised from the last time I posted it).

You can clearly see the bounce that Bush got early June here. Among the polls that were done June 1-10, the Pew, IBD/CSM, Zogby and ARG polls all pushed Bush a little back upwards, while only the LATimes and Gallup polls pulled him further down.

But Kerry-supporters can take heart in the fact that this latest ABC/WaPo poll, which is surpringly bad for Bush as you can see in the graph above, isnt calculated into this "average" graph yet ... it falls in the June 11-20 timespan, which isnt drawn into the graph yet (only two polls available so far, waiting for more).

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-kerry_average_midjune.gif

- The average of the Bush job ratings, until June 15
(using only the approve/disapprove ones - not the polls, like Zogby and Harris, that deal in excellent/good vs fair/poor, cause those numbers work out very differently):

Again you can see a little Bush recovery here:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-job-ratings_2001-2004_average_midjune.gif

You do need a little pinch of salt on the up and down from one half-month/10-day period to the next, since not every poll appears every half-month - and therefore the average also depends on which polls happen to have come out, since some tend to show Bush up better or worse than others. But that Bush did a little better again in early June is clear.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2004 07:50 pm
Thanks, Dutch.Smile
(That's Reagan...)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 04:43 am
More about this latest ABC/WaPo poll here ...

Numbers are really quite striking ... and ABC/WaPo usually has solid enough numbers, nothing all too far outlying (if anything it usually polls a slightly higher than average job rating for Bush, for example). Just cant figure out how much of a one-off this one is, in comparison with other polls, or whether its a harbinger of things to come.

Anyway, here's some stuff:

Quote:
Bush loses advantage in war on terrorism

[..] Exactly half the country now approves of the way Bush is managing the U.S. war on terrorism, down 13 percentage points since April, according to the poll. Barely two months ago, Bush comfortably led Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee, by 21 points when voters were asked which man they trusted to deal with the terrorist threat. Today the country is evenly divided, with 48 percent preferring Kerry and 47 percent favoring Bush. [..]

The shift is potentially significant because Bush has consistently received higher marks on fighting terrorism than on Iraq, and if the decline signals a permanent loss of confidence in his handling of the fight against terrorism, that could undermine a central part of his reelection campaign message.

Overall the poll had mixed news for both candidates. Bush's marks for handling the economy and Iraq both rose slightly over the past month, but his overall approval rating remains below 50 percent. Kerry leads Bush in a three-way test that includes independent Ralph Nader and is seen as more honest and trustworthy than the president, but those surveyed question whether he has a plan for Iraq.

Fewer than half of those surveyed -- 47 percent -- say the war in Iraq was worth fighting, while 52 percent say it was not, the highest level of disapproval recorded in Post-ABC News polls. Seven in 10 Americans now say there has been an "unacceptable" level of casualties in Iraq, up 6 points from April and also a new high in Post-ABC News polling. A majority say the United States should keep its forces in Iraq until the country is stabilized, but the proportion who want to withdraw now to avoid further casualties -- 42 percent -- has inched up again to a new high. Two in three Americans say the war has improved the lives of the Iraqi people, and a growing number of Americans say the United States is making significant progress toward a democratic government. Last month, 37 percent said they saw significant progress, while 50 percent say so now.

The public is sharply divided over whether the war contributed to the long-term security of the United States, with 51 percent saying it has, a new low in Post-ABC polls. Three in four say the conflict has damaged the image of the United States throughout the world, and a majority believe the war has not improved prospects for long-term peace and stability in the Middle East.

Movement among independents

Virtually all of the recent movement against the war has occurred among political independents. Among those with no firm party ties, the proportion who said the war was "not worth fighting" increased from 48 percent in May to 59 percent in the latest poll.

Bush's approval rating on his handling of Iraq remains negative but rose slightly in the past month to 44 percent, with 55 percent saying they disapprove.

On the key domestic issue of the economy, 46 percent give Bush positive marks, up 7 points since March and his best showing since January. The survey also found that nearly half the country rates the health of the economy as "excellent" or "good," up 6 points from March and the highest since July 2001, following a succession of positive economic statistics.

But improved marks on Iraq and the economy did not translate into a rise in Bush's overall approval rating, nor did they improve his standing against Kerry in a hypothetical November matchup. [..]

The survey found that Kerry's advantages over Bush extended to a range of issues. When asked which they trusted to do the better job, Kerry held a double-digit advantage over Bush as the candidate the public preferred to deal with health care (21 points), taxes (13 points), prescription drug benefits for the elderly (12 points) and education (10 points), and smaller leads on handling international affairs (8 points), the economy (5 points) and the federal budget deficit (4 points).

In only one area -- Iraq -- was Bush more trusted, 50 percent to 45 percent.

Bush viewed as stronger leader

The president is viewed as a stronger leader than Kerry and as the candidate who can be most trusted in a crisis. He is also seen as best able to "make the country safer and more secure" and the one who "takes a position and sticks with it."

But by 52 percent to 39 percent, Kerry is seen as more honest and trustworthy -- a troubling finding for Bush, whose truthfulness before the war in Iraq has been called into question.

The survey also found that eight in 10 Americans support the transfer of power from the U.S.-led coalition to an interim Iraqi government on June 30. Nearly half -- 48 percent -- said it should be Iraqis who have the final say over the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq, while just as many say it should be the Americans. Big majorities said the new Iraqi government and not the United States also should control Iraq's oil industry and handle the distribution of aid from other nations. [..]
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:02 am
One of Al Gore's key errors in 2000 was his ill-advised efforts to distance himself from the Big Dog.

John Kerry won't make the same mistake (link from Yahoo!):

Quote:
In stark contrast to four years ago, when then-Democratic nominee Al Gore kept Clinton at a distance, Democrats plan to make the former president an integral part of this year's campaign. While the former president's book tour will keep him occupied much of the summer, aides are already trying to work political appearances around his domestic travels.


And Clinton could prove decisive in his old homestate of Arkansas, one of the few battleground southern states this cycle.

Quote:
Republicans acknowledge that Clinton is a plus for Democrats here. "If he gets out and really campaigns for Kerry, it could make a big difference. In my opinion, it would be the difference," says Bill Vickery, a Little Rock-based GOP consultant.

Recent polls in the state have shown Bush and Kerry in a tight race. Local politicians say Bush has been hurt by problems in Iraq; 11 Arkansas soldiers have died there since the war began. Many mayors from across the state, in Little Rock last week for an Arkansas Municipal League conference, say that their communities are split 50-50.

"It's going to be a dogfight," says Mayor Robert Patrick, an independent from St. Charles.


Republicans are, in a word, terrified at the prospect of campaigning again against the Big Dog. Their rhetoric of late has been (all of them are saying it and none of them seems to know what it means, exactly) that Bill Clinton will "suck all the oxygen" from John Kerry.

Well, something sucks all right, but the sucking sounds are all coming from the Right.

If Kerry, by utilizing Clinton, can force Bush to do nothing more than play defense in Arkansas, it makes an even bigger impact on other battleground states.

Time and money in Arkansas is less time and money for states like Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

And if Wes Clark is the vice-presidential nominee, Bush may as well write it off. It will be another new blue state. Cool
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:06 am
nimh wrote:
Numbers are really quite striking ... and ABC/WaPo usually has solid enough numbers, nothing all too far outlying (if anything it usually polls a slightly higher than average job rating for Bush, for example). Just cant figure out how much of a one-off this one is, in comparison with other polls, or whether its a harbinger of things to come.


That's accurate, nimh; if there was a Reagan bounce, it skipped right over ABC's poll, which has consistently given Bush his highest ratings.

It looks increasingly likely that the Harris Poll was an outlier.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:07 am
Remember, PDiddie, you and I have a bet goin' here.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:08 am
You want to just go ahead and write the check now, Big Bird? Razz
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:12 am
Gotta admire your pluck, PDiddie. Your confidence is right up there with that shown by Howard Dean right up to the time the votes actually started to be counted back during this spring's primaries. Mr. Green

I ain't worried a bit. November's gonna be great fun. I'm really lookin' forward to it.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 08:18 am
My promise to you, timber, is that I will be just as good-natured and kind to you in the wake of the Republicans' overwhelming defeat, from the top to the bottom of the ticket, as I am right now. :wink:
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 09:33 am
I like this:

Quote:
But by 52 percent to 39 percent, Kerry is seen as more honest and trustworthy -- a troubling finding for Bush, whose truthfulness before the war in Iraq has been called into question.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 06:52 pm
<grumbles>

More old polls turning up (Time, even Mother Jones did one) -- so I had to revise my Bush vs Kerry graphs again.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 07:17 pm
Quote:
Republicans are, in a word, terrified at the prospect of campaigning again against the Big Dog. Their rhetoric of late has been (all of them are saying it and none of them seems to know what it means, exactly) that Bill Clinton will "suck all the oxygen" from John Kerry.


The Repubs will be shaking in their boots, like when Bill went out to Cali and stumped for Gray Davis and saved his governorship. Laughing

I remember the time when Gore endorsed Dean and now he's the Dem nominee too. Laughing

Now all four of these guys are sucking, but it's not oxygen....

Terrifying. Rolling Eyes
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2004 07:18 pm
I lay even odds that whoever gets elected, we all end up getting it up the wazoo.

Who wants some of that action? (the betting action I mean)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2004 04:53 pm
Unrelated to the action ... still quite interesting

Code:ABC News/Washington Post Poll. June 17-20, 2004.

"Generally speaking, would you say you favor smaller government with fewer services, or larger government with more services?"

Smaller Larger Unsure

June 2004 50% 46% 4%
July 2002 53% 42% 6%
January 2002 54% 41% 5%
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 12:51 pm
nimh, look at this from the Quinnipiac University poll:

Pennsylvania registered voters, 6/24, MoE 3.7%. (4/13-19 results)

Kerry 44 (39)
Bush 41 (45)
Nader 6 (8)

Kerry 45 (42)
Bush 42 (46)

Bush's Job Approval:

Approve 41 (47)
Disapprove 55 (49)

Favorability Ratings:

Bush
Favorable: 34 (39)
Unfavorable: 42 (37)

Kerry
Favorable: 32 (24)
Unfavorable: 27 (31)

Nader
Favorable: 14 (13)
Unfavorable: 31 (29)

Yet another state showing Kerry's favorability ratings going up.

More proof that Bush's cynical and misleading $80 million negative ad campaign has completely backfired.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 07:43 pm
Yeah, its a week of baffling ups and downs.

On the positive side, I'll add Ohio and Florida to your Pennsylvania, courtesy of the American Research Group:

Florida, June 21-23
Bush 46
Kerry 47
Nader 2

Without Nader:
Bush 46
Kerry 48

Plus:
Quote:
Kerry continues to improve among independents, with Kerry now leading Bush 51% to 38% among independents. 11% of Democrats, however, still say they will vote for Bush.


Ohio, June 21-23
Bush 43
Kerry 49
Nader 2

Without Nader:
Bush 44
Kerry 50

Plus:
Quote:
Kerry has slipped from 87% among Democrats in May to 83% among Democrats in this survey, but Kerry leads Bush 53% to 38% among independents in this survey compared to a Kerry lead of 48% to 43% among independents in May.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 07:52 pm
However, then on national level - right after that ABC/WaPo poll that was so bafflingly good for Kerry - there are two whoppers for Bush.

One's courtesy of Fox News. Now Fox is partisan, all that. But that doesnt explain why Bush does so much better in the Fox poll this week than he did in the Fox poll two weeks ago:

Bush 47 (+5)
Kerry 40 (-2)
Nader 3

or:
Bush 48 (+5)
Kerry 42 (-3)

And then there's the newest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll. Two weeks ago, it showed Kerry ahead by more even than he was in that embattled LA Times poll. This week, it has Bush back up 5 points and Kerry down 2:

Bush 48 (+5)
Kerry 47 (-2)
Nader 3 (-2)

Or:
Bush 49 (+5)
Kerry 48 (-2)

Now in Gallup's case that just means the race is back to neck-to-neck again. But still, two polls with a 7-8% swing in two weeks - that hasn't happened since late March.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:24 pm
Rassmussen Tracking Poll shows a net overnight shift of +5 for Bush, 47% to Kerry's 45%, in contrast to yesterday's showing of a Kerry 47-44 advantage, and is the first time since June 18th Bush has shown a lead over Kerry. RealClearPolitics latest summary again shows Bush with a 1.3 point lead for the week, as well (though without Nader, the advantage drops a full point).

Statistical noise, or trend-in-the-making? The advantages essentially remain within the margins-of-error, so absolute numbers from individual polls indicate nothing other than an as-yet-undecided contest. Nonetheless, looking at the net gain figures for Bush, Kerry hasn't had a stellar week.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2004 08:29 pm
It seems to me on the weeks Kerry is out of the spotlight, he does better.

Doesn't bode well for the run-up to elections and debates...

He can't vacation forever.

Wonder what the fallout of release of his wife's tax records will be? Not thinking the nation's usual Democrat demographic will like to know Kerry has made off like a bandit on taxes--on the backs of the working poor...
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