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Why do the path of light is such that the time travel is minimum?

 
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 11:52 pm
For most people who study differential calculus, or the first two years of college physics had to solve certain problems that requires them to minimize certain quantities. One such example is to the minimization of the path traveled for light between two points in space. For people who study the calculus of variabtion, and advanced physics, you can obtain the function y(t), given two points in configuration space, and the right lagrange for the problem( associated with the physical system), and obtain the action by integrating the lagrange, and find the stationary points for the action. I suspect it is a mystery to most people why the path of light is such that it minimize the time. It so happens that in quantum electrodynamic(or QED), avoids the problem. According to:
Amazon.com: QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter (Princeton Science Library) (9780691125756): Richard P. Feynman, A. Zee: Books.


Given source S( Where light emits), and the distination D( where light reach). The basic question is how does light go from S to D?

These are the steps for light to go from S to D according to QED:

1) Break the event for light from S to D into a finite( or perhaps infinite) many independent events( fancy word is "history"). An event is independent if the occurence of one event does not effect the occurence of others events.

2). Each event is associated with a vector.

3) Each vector has a magnitude, and direction.

3.1) the magnitude is determined by the medium in which light travels.

3.2) The direction is determined as a function of time of traveled in each independent event( or history).

4) The vector from S to D is determined by "vector multiplication" between all the assicated vectors in all the independent events.

4.1) vector multiplication are operations involving adding angles, and scaling the magnitude.


5) The square of the vector between S to D is the probability of a proton going from S to D.




The basic idea is that for light to go from S to D, we can imagine infinite many path( call each path an independent event, some call it "history"). Each path is assicated with a vector. Each vector is determined by the total traveling time, and he medium of travel. By some "rule" of adding these paths( or vectors), we can come to a "final" vector between S to D.
The magnitude of this final vector square is the probability of a proton going from S to D.
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Krumple
 
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Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2009 01:42 am
@vectorcube,
Well really you are asking, why does light travel in straight lines? Since the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, therefore the shortest time to travel.

First off, this is assuming that straight lines exist. According to general relativity, matter "bends" or "warps" space and time therefore what might appear to be a straight line is actually curved.

The second aspect to consider is the observation of the light itself. I have seen cases where two laser beams were crossed and the resultant splash of the laser focal was altered slightly by the overlap of photons. How can you account for this?

The last part is the distance itself. If you were to place a source blocked by a wall which the light had to bounce off a mirror to get around the wall, you would assume that the photons passing through the wall would have the shorter trip but are blocked by the wall but the photons bouncing off the mirror manage to make it around the wall and into the collector.

So with this last piece, why does the shorter trip need to be necessary if the path is not attainable?

So I think it is an error to assume that light always travels in straight lines or the shortest trip. I think a photon randomly obtains it's trajectory and weather it is blocked comes after not before. We just never see those photons that were blocked early.

There are also cases where photons either share or exchange their velocity. Just like if you shine a laser over a slightly reflective surface, at what point are those photons streaming off to reflect on the surface? They would almost be streaming constantly off in all directions equally, but how can that be if the beam were thousands of light years long? It would seem that the beam were to be constantly creating new photons as it went along, but how can photons just create new photons?
vectorcube
 
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Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2009 05:01 am
@Krumple,
Quote:

Well really you are asking, why does light travel in straight lines? Since the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, therefore the shortest time to travel.


But the whole point of my post is to explain away the minimization of time using sum over histories according to QED.The Sum Over Histories


Quote:
First off, this is assuming that straight lines exist. According to general relativity, matter "bends" or "warps" space and time therefore what might appear to be a straight line is actually curved.


yes, and if there is zero matter. What you have a plat spacetime where triangles add up to 180, and straight line is defined.

Quote:
The second aspect to consider is the observation of the light itself. I have seen cases where two laser beams were crossed and the resultant splash of the laser focal was altered slightly by the overlap of photons. How can you account for this?



what ` s the question?

Quote:
The last part is the distance itself. If you were to place a source blocked by a wall which the light had to bounce off a mirror to get around the wall, you would assume that the photons passing through the wall would have the shorter trip but are blocked by the wall but the photons bouncing off the mirror manage to make it around the wall and into the collector.



Yes.


Quote:
So with this last piece, why does the shorter trip need to be necessary if the path is not attainable?


Well, in quantum mechanics, every history is necessary, because there is a non-zero probability of a proton going from S to D even if there is a "block". If you study QM, the block is substitude to be an potential wall.
If your potential well is finite, then there is a non-zero probability of a proton going thru it. See:
Finite potential well - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:


So I think it is an error to assume that light always travels in straight lines or the shortest trip. I think a photon randomly obtains it's trajectory and weather it is blocked comes after not before. We just never see those photons that were blocked early.



straight lines are not really histories in QED. maybe you have in mind straight lines in general relativity. if so, then the notion of straight line is generalized as the geodesic in space-time:Geodesic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:

There are also cases where photons either share or exchange their velocity. Just like if you shine a laser over a slightly reflective surface, at what point are those photons streaming off to reflect on the surface? They would almost be streaming constantly off in all directions equally, but how can that be if the beam were thousands of light years long? It would seem that the beam were to be constantly creating new photons as it went along, but how can photons just create new photons?



Don` t understand your question.
Bones-O
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 06:42 am
@vectorcube,
vectorcube;85115 wrote:
But the whole point of my post is to explain away the minimization of time using sum over histories according to QED.The Sum Over Histories


Classically, waves following paths deviating from that which minimises time undergo destructive interference with each other while those close to the paths that minimise time constructively interfere, resulting in a path that is (mostly) that which gives the least time.

In QED, each path has associated with it a complex amplitude given by its action. The total probability of the photon reaching point D is the sum of these amplitudes over all possible paths. It so happens that if there are significant contributions for paths that do not minimise time, the probability of the photon reaching point D tends toward zero as the photon propagates, i.e. the photon becomes more likely to miss D and be found elsewhere.

Bones
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