1
   

Sweet, impossible love (poem)

 
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:07 am
@The Jester phil,
The Jester;121950 wrote:
I am disinclined to acquiesce to this idea. Before minstrels, there were Roman poets like Ovidius, and before him Greek poets like Sappho and Anacreon - so this comes much earlier, if not since the dawn of humanity.

As you can behold I presume, it is natural, for there is still mankind; and those same songs and those same loves still sprung from the hearts of men/women.


But did these poets sing of unrequited love as an end in itself? I don't think so. Romantic of this love (of this perverse masochistic kind) is a Hollywood product (as is the closing of the eyes when kissing). Of course, this raises the question of why it was so easy to sell it to women.
The Jester phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:23 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;121976 wrote:
But did these poets sing of unrequited love as an end in itself? I don't think so.


Good sir, do you think it is not so, or do you know it is not so? I invite you to read them yourself. I passed two years in reading Classics, and the impression I got on some is: "the unrequited love as an end in itself". But then, that's my interpretation.

Amores 1,4, Ovidius:
Vir tuus est epulas nobis aditurus easdem;
ultima cena tuo sit, precor, illa viro.
Ergo ego dilectam tantum conviva puellam
aspicam? Tangi quem iuvet, alter erit,
alteriusque sinus apte subiecta fovebis?

Or: Ovidius sings how his love will be loved by another at a feast and he may only watch and suffer and he wants to suffer; I do not recall which part is when he sings that he is in front of the doors of his love and he cannot get to her.
He oftenly compers the lover as a solider who must bleed on the battalfield.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 09:53 am
@The Jester phil,
The Jester;121979 wrote:
Good sir, do you think it is not so, or do you know it is not so? I invite you to read them yourself. I passed two years in reading Classics, and the impression I got on some is: "the unrequited love as an end in itself". But then, that's my interpretation.

Amores 1,4, Ovidius:
Vir tuus est epulas nobis aditurus easdem;
ultima cena tuo sit, precor, illa viro.
Ergo ego dilectam tantum conviva puellam
aspicam? Tangi quem iuvet, alter erit,
alteriusque sinus apte subiecta fovebis?

Or: Ovidius sings how his love will be loved by another at a feast and he may only watch and suffer and he wants to suffer; I do not recall which part is when he sings that he is in front of the doors of his love and he cannot get to her.
He oftenly compers the lover as a solider who must bleed on the battalfield.


But does Ovid sing of unrequited or impossible love as something desirable, as the women posters on this thread do? That is the issue. Men also suffer when they cannot have their beloved. But men do not seek that state as something desirable. You are missing the point.
The Jester phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:39 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;121984 wrote:
But does Ovid sing of unrequited or impossible love as something desirable, as the women posters on this thread do? That is the issue. Men also suffer when they cannot have their beloved. But men do not seek that state as something desirable. You are missing the point.


He does; and I did, long ago.
Lily
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:52 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;121853 wrote:

It must be learned behavior on the part of women: probably from the minstrels of the Middle Ages who sang of unrequited and frustrated love. And reinforced by Hollywood. It could not be natural, because it certainly does not promote survival.

Haha, true:shifty:

kennethamy;121984 wrote:
But does Ovid sing of unrequited or impossible love as something desirable, as the women posters on this thread do? That is the issue. Men also suffer when they cannot have their beloved. But men do not seek that state as something desirable. You are missing the point.

Aha, I think there's been a missunderstanding. I don't state that it is the impossible love that is desirable, only that it is easy to write about, and good to read about. But women want to love (and be loved) with all of their hearts. If you do so and suddenly comes trouble, you don't just say "Oh, crap, to hell with this!" and leave, you'd stay and fight. On the other hand, women want epic love, and impossible love can feel more epic than happy love. So I guess you're half right...
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 11:00 am
@Lily,
Very nice; an honest expression of very vulnerable thoughts and feelings.

And Ken: I'm sorry, but its' just silly to say 'Men are not like that'. Truth be told, I've seen more males pursue potential mates who are unreachable (in a sense) than women. I'd suggest this is an unwarranted generalization - that this is endemic to only one of the genders - at least from what I've seen.

Thanks
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 11:00 am
@The Jester phil,
The Jester;121991 wrote:
He does; and I did, long ago.


He does? He intentionally seeks love he knows he cannot have? In what passages?

---------- Post added 01-23-2010 at 12:07 PM ----------

Khethil;121998 wrote:
Very nice; an honest expression of very vulnerable thoughts and feelings.

And Ken: I'm sorry, but its' just silly to say 'Men are not like that'. Truth be told, I've seen more males pursue potential mates who are unreachable (in a sense) than women. I'd suggest this is an unwarranted generalization - that this is endemic to only one of the genders - at least from what I've seen.

Thanks


Men pursue women because the women was unattainable, and enjoy it just for that reason? I haven't. Is there any account of that in literature? But a lot about women who are like that in literature. Anna Karinena , Emma Bovary, two name just two who come to mind. Anthony Trollope's novels seem to have only such women in them. They love to be frustrated and deny themselves of men who love them for the most specious of reasons.
Dave Allen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 05:58 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;121999 wrote:
Men pursue women because the women was unattainable, and enjoy it just for that reason? I haven't. Is there any account of that in literature?

Perfume by Patrick Suskind.

Every other set of lyrics by an emo band?
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 08:35 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;122129 wrote:
Perfume by Patrick Suskind.

Every other set of lyrics by an emo band?


You should read the other posts. We were talking about ancient literature. Suskind is not an ancient Roman. and whatever emos are, neither are they, I suppose.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 10:57 am
@Lily,
Dream your beatiful dreams for sometimes they are not what they seam, play with your beautiful friend because beautiful dreams aren't suppose to end, for he loved you so but did not let you go, the dream just changed never to end. There I wrote that for you Lily inspired by your poem.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Jan, 2010 09:15 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;122136 wrote:
You should read the other posts. We were talking about ancient literature. Suskind is not an ancient Roman. and whatever emos are, neither are they, I suppose.
I thought Lily very young and very sweet.
Not like you , you hard hearted male beast.
Make love at least.
Here is one over romantic male fool
to make the exception to your rule.
0 Replies
 
Magnus phil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2010 03:41 pm
@Lily,
Eros and Psyche

Great poem, too deep to get into now, but this link can analyze better than I can say at the moment.
0 Replies
 
Catchabula
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 03:33 pm
@Lily,
The theme of this poem kept playing through my head like a young sheperdess dancing on the tune of a flute. It made me browse through my own poems and I found this one that I wrote in Paris in the autumn of 1907. Though I've grown a bit older since then I still feel french as the language of love "per excellence". Sauve qui peut, here comes:


Souvenir

Je t'aimais aux jours des abeilles,
Personne devinant nos abris,
L o des roses vermeilles
L'odeur ravissante nous surprit.


Me parler d'amour dans le soir.

Toucher mes mains dans le noir.

Je t'ai entendue en silence
M'annoncer un dpart sans raison.
Ma foi, s'il n'y a plus d'esprance
L'hiver remplace chaque saison.

Que me vaut l'exquise tristesse
D'un dsir plus jamais assouvi?
Avec les beaux jours d'allgresse
Le bonheur lui-mme est parti.
.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 07:20 pm
@Catchabula,
Catchabula;127959 wrote:
The theme of this poem kept playing through my head like a young sheperdess dancing on the tune of a flute. It made me browse through my own poems and I found this one that I wrote in Paris in the autumn of 1907. Though I've grown a bit older since then I still feel french as the language of love "per excellence". Sauve qui peut, here comes:


Souvenir

Je t'aimais aux jours des abeilles,
Personne devinant nos abris,
L o des roses vermeilles
L'odeur ravissante nous surprit.


Me parler d'amour dans le soir.

Toucher mes mains dans le noir.

Je t'ai entendue en silence
M'annoncer un dpart sans raison.
Ma foi, s'il n'y a plus d'esprance
L'hiver remplace chaque saison.

Que me vaut l'exquise tristesse
D'un dsir plus jamais assouvi?
Avec les beaux jours d'allgresse
Le bonheur lui-mme est parti.
.


Thank you. I particularly like the line, L'hiver remplace chaque saison.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2010 09:47 pm
@kennethamy,
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

What inspired you to write...discuss - Discussion by lostnsearching
It floated there..... - Discussion by Letty
Small Voices - Discussion by Endymion
Rockets Red Glare - Discussion by edgarblythe
rate this rap - Discussion by theprofessor
Short Story: Wilkerson's Tank - Discussion by edgarblythe
The Virtual Storytellers Campfire - Discussion by cavfancier
1st Annual Able2Know Halloween Story Contest - Discussion by realjohnboy
Literary Agents (a resource for writers) - Discussion by Craven de Kere
 
Copyright © 2023 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 02/04/2023 at 08:39:53