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Tue 11 Aug, 2009 08:31 am
No thread yet about mixed martial arts? :poke-eye: (closest pictorial representation available...eyepokes are actually against the rules)
I'd be interested in hearing what philosophising types think of this sweeping phenomenon. I'm not one to tune into something out of pure lust for violence and blood, and so I've wondered why I myself took such a deep interest in this sport. I'm a former grappler, but I think there's something more drawing me in.
One might criticize its apparent barbarity, but it does have this one thing going for it which I think is the key to taking this sport very far. Fighting is the purest form of conflict resolution. Two opponents enter a cage stripped of all except trunks, mouthpiece, and a pair of 4 oz. gloves. Reputation based on the past, future potential, socio-economic background, etc etc. all is left at the cage/ring entrance.
Deep inside, this need may be within all of us. However, before we can trade punches with Bob at the office to get back at him for all his behind-the-back jabs he takes at us, we must scratch through layers of etiquette, professionalism, legality, and what have you. Obviously in most cases, the conflict then goes unresolved. Accumulate all these unresolved conflicts (however insignificant they appear individually) and bury them within. Suddenly, seeing this impulse indulged between two others awakens something in the viewer. What do you think? Am I delving too deeply?
I think the same idea runs in Fight Club. Members fight (win/loss matters not) thereby resolving conflicts completely. Comraderie develops ultimately into the highest possible degree of class-consciousness and cooperation towards a common end.
@Labyrinth,
I sometimes watch MMA, I dont think that it should be made illegal the participtants clearly know the kind of risks which they will expose themselves to and the standards of refereeing go some of the way to manage some of the most dangerous risks that competitiors face. I have to agree, something about watching fighting brings out something within me & I do really enjoy watching it. My only problem with MMA is that I dont find it as entertaining to watch as Boxing or Thai Boxing. I dont really enjoy watching the groundwork & grappling in MMA.
@Labyrinth,
There is a certain skill involved in fighting especially martial arts, such as Tai Chi, where it's all about defense which is a good thing to learn for obvious reasons, however, as much as I enjoy watching boxing sometimes, I cannot escape the fact that they are bashing each others brains out and run a high risk of suffering permanent brain damage like Muhammad Ali but I loved watching Lennox Lewis fight but I would never step into a boxing ring myself for fear of getting damage to the head but I would consider, like to do a martial art.
@Caroline,
Caroline;84295 wrote:There is a certain skill involved in fighting especially martial arts, such as Tai Chi, where it's all about defense which is a good thing to learn for obvious reasons, however, as much as I enjoy watching boxing sometimes, I cannot escape the fact that they are bashing each others brains out and run a high risk of suffering permanent brain damage like Muhammad Ali but I loved watching Lennox Lewis fight but I would never step into a boxing ring myself for fear of getting damage to the head but I would consider, like to do a martial art.
Hi Caroline,
I am like you. I have an interest in watching how people learn to defend themselves, and I use to watch with interest how a small person like Gracie could defend himself against much larger individuals. Ali always struck me as the consummate arts. The rope-a-dope tactics that defeated Foreman was a classic.
I will sometimes turn on MMA for a few minutes. There have been certain participants that I sometimes find bring something entirely new into the arena. For the most part though, I usually change channels very quickly. I think out of boredom, and also knowing that what the participants are doing to themselves is very unhealthy.
Rich
@Labyrinth,
I am a fan and have been a fan for a long time. Originally I am a pacifist and consider violence to solve problems is fuel for more violence, so I have never given any respect for people who jump to such tactics. But when it comes to MMA, I don't see it as violent. Think about it, sure the opponents might have a little trash talk between them but for the most part, they respect their opponent. There is no hatred or desire to kill or permanently injure the other person. With the rules the way they are, it really isn't any more dangerous than professional football. For me it doesn't make me want to go out and pick a fight with someone just because I want to hurt someone, but this tends to be some of the arguments that are being made against the sport. If it were true then there should be hundreds of thousands of people out picking fights, but it's not happening so we can easily conclude that watching MMA does not induce violence. Not to mention that people who generally would hurt someone, would probably do it regardless of anything they watched or seen, why? because they have already decided that level of respect or harm is negotiable.
On a side note, I do think there are some people who should get punched but never do.
@Krumple,
Krumple;84315 wrote: But when it comes to MMA, I don't see it as violent. Think about it, sure the opponents might have a little trash talk between them but for the most part, they respect their opponent. There is no hatred or desire to kill or permanently injure the other person.
Hi there Krumple,
While there may or may not be any desire to permanently injure an opponent, there does seem to be plenty of desire to injure at that moment. Whether or not this turns into a permanent injury depends upon the nature of the injury. The blows to Ali's head eventually led to his current condition.
I think the better fighters know how to protect themselves against major injury, but those elbows to the head or the leg kicks to the knee are definitely designed to injure, and my guess is that most of those injuries do accumulate over time.
For my part, I definitely see it as very violent - but within the law.
Rich
@Labyrinth,
Quote:For my part, I definitely see it as very violent - but within the law.
Okay, fair enough Rich, but the other aspect is that no one is forcing them into the octagon. They are there by choice and they are also aware of the possible injuries so just how unsuspecting is it? Sure there is the lure of wealth but people get killed on the job doing mundane tasks every year, I can't imagine this is really any different.
But like I said earlier, there are other sports that can be just as injurious as MMA.
@Krumple,
Krumple;84329 wrote:Okay, fair enough Rich, but the other aspect is that no one is forcing them into the octagon. They are there by choice and they are also aware of the possible injuries so just how unsuspecting is it? Sure there is the lure of wealth but people get killed on the job doing mundane tasks every year, I can't imagine this is really any different.
But like I said earlier, there are other sports that can be just as injurious as MMA.
Hi,
I agree. Football, for example, is not laughing matter. Yes, I agree, they all know what they are getting into and if that's what they want to do, that's want they want to do. For me, I just don't see it as very healthy for them, and it does get very repetitious after a while. Which is probably why I do not watch any professional sport.
Rich
@richrf,
Maybe its just me. I'm a Judo teacher and I teach self Defense with my wife who is a practitioner of Ninjutsu. I have direct experience with a martial art that was refined into a sport. As does anyone who has ever taken high school wrestling for that matter. Anyway when a person gets into a fight there is a sense of conflict resolution or vengeance. When a person fights in a sport there is only competition. The violence is superfluous to the experience. When one is fighting in a martial art sport, it is very technical, it is very contest driven, it is almost never out of spite for your opponent. When I fight in competition I normally know my ooponent and I am often friends with that person. But when I fight in competition that person becomes a fluid motion of techniques and counters which I must overcome to win. People who are not practitioners inflate the 'violence' from direct inexperience with the sport.
@GoshisDead,
This guy was always my favorite fighter. He died of acute leukemia in 2000, which had nothing to do with his fighting . . .
YouTube - K1 - Best Of Andy Hug - Part 1 by mart
I've been pretty heavily involved in martial arts for about 15 years now. I'm 47 and I still love to fight. We go at it pretty hard every Thursday night with very little protection other than mouthguards and thin foam gloves.
When people ask what it is about fighting that I enjoy so much, a line from
Fight Club always comes to mind first: "After fighting, everything else in your life gets the volume turned down on it."
For someone like me, fighting is a form of stress relief and letting go. And even though we've all injured one another on occasion, we all still go home friends.
@Labyrinth,
The only thing I'm bummed about is Gina Carano losing to cyborg. I was really wanting her to totally own cyborg but it looks like she caught Gina with a solid punch early on and it took all the heart out of her to continue. Oh well, just have to wait for a rematch I guess.
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;84357 wrote:Maybe its just me. I'm a Judo teacher and I teach self Defense with my wife who is a practitioner of Ninjutsu.
Don't you find that teaching is one of the most rewarding aspects of martial arts? We teach four classes a week, two nights adults, two nights kids. Our style is American Kenpo.
@TickTockMan,
I love teaching, especially the self defense classes. its fun to watch people become more confident.
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;84403 wrote:I love teaching, especially the self defense classes. its fun to watch people become more confident.
It really does do wonders for a lot of people.
@Krumple,
Krumple;84386 wrote:The only thing I'm bummed about is Gina Carano losing to cyborg. I was really wanting her to totally own cyborg but it looks like she caught Gina with a solid punch early on and it took all the heart out of her to continue. Oh well, just have to wait for a rematch I guess.
Oh, same here. Gina Carano is one of my favorite fighters.
For me, I enjoy it mainly for the strategy involved as different people with different styles try to find openings in each others defences. The same reason I watch the other sports that I like. But I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I also do enjoy the violence a bit. Particularly when the fighter being defeated is someone I don't like.
@Shadow Dragon,
Just so no one thinks that MMA is limited to
our species . . .
YouTube - Paws of Fury
@Labyrinth,
I think it's a blood sport: Roman gladiator-ing remixed: end of story. It's just my gut feeling--I feel sick to my stomach every time it comes on. (This coming from a guy who likes American football and roots his team on through thick or thin.)
@hammersklavier,
hammersklavier;85464 wrote:I think it's a blood sport: Roman gladiator-ing remixed: end of story. It's just my gut feeling--I feel sick to my stomach every time it comes on. (This coming from a guy who likes American football and roots his team on through thick or thin.)
How do you feel about boxing?
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