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Can science agree with the concept of life after death?

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Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:00 am
@Leonard,
I know there are a lot of people who believe that they will be reunited after death. For what ever reason they hold onto these ideas, weather to make their fear subside when faced with dying or to console another who is dying.

I can't help but examine the idea and I see a logistical problem that no one seems to be considering. They just stop at the concept of being reunited but they don't take into consideration what that actually requires or implies.

There are trillions and trillions and trillions of individuals that have lived and will live. How can you accommodate so many beings? What fuels these beings to exist? You can't have infinite energy for a soul. There must be something that powers the soul to exist. No one addresses this issue. They just write it off and say the soul will exist in a dimension that does not require energy to exist. You can't make that assumption because it is nothing but a guess. If the guess is wrong then your whole idea would not work.

You can't have conservation of energy for a thing that has infinite energy. We never see any such thing nor do we have any math for any such thing. Let alone a billion trillion souls that would require infinite energy to exist.

That is unless your soul eats soul apples, soul sandwiches, soul salads, soul water. But then were do these soul foods come from? Do they require processing, or do they magically appear?

Is your soul going to have the same appearance it had on earth? So when you die, you are stuck with a permanent hair cut? Or can you will yourself a different look if you want? If you can change your appearance any way you want, then how would you recognize anyone? You would just automatically know them? What about the people that you hated or despised in your family? An uncle that molested you as a child gets to hang out with you for eternity? Or how about the wife that murdered you for your money? You get reunited with her too?

The whole thing is one big logistical nightmare that no one considers because it obviously shows the whole concept of life after death is flawed.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:06 am
@Leonard,
Whose afraid of death? Im not are you Krumple, how come pray tell?
Thanks.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:18 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91744 wrote:
Whose afraid of death? Im not are you Krumple, how come pray tell?
Thanks.


Well it is natural to be nervous about the unknown. I wouldn't call it fear, I am more curious than anything else. I am no more afraid of dying than I was afraid of being born.
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:31 am
@Leonard,
What you remember being born?
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:32 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;91743 wrote:
I know there are a lot of people who believe that they will be reunited after death. For what ever reason they hold onto these ideas, weather to make their fear subside when faced with dying or to console another who is dying.

I can't help but examine the idea and I see a logistical problem that no one seems to be considering. They just stop at the concept of being reunited but they don't take into consideration what that actually requires or implies.

There are trillions and trillions and trillions of individuals that have lived and will live. How can you accommodate so many beings? What fuels these beings to exist? You can't have infinite energy for a soul. There must be something that powers the soul to exist. No one addresses this issue. They just write it off and say the soul will exist in a dimension that does not require energy to exist. You can't make that assumption because it is nothing but a guess. If the guess is wrong then your whole idea would not work.

You can't have conservation of energy for a thing that has infinite energy. We never see any such thing nor do we have any math for any such thing. Let alone a billion trillion souls that would require infinite energy to exist.

That is unless your soul eats soul apples, soul sandwiches, soul salads, soul water. But then were do these soul foods come from? Do they require processing, or do they magically appear?

Is your soul going to have the same appearance it had on earth? So when you die, you are stuck with a permanent hair cut? Or can you will yourself a different look if you want? If you can change your appearance any way you want, then how would you recognize anyone? You would just automatically know them? What about the people that you hated or despised in your family? An uncle that molested you as a child gets to hang out with you for eternity? Or how about the wife that murdered you for your money? You get reunited with her too?

The whole thing is one big logistical nightmare that no one considers because it obviously shows the whole concept of life after death is flawed.
Is it impossible because your imagination fails you? When there are more suns in the sky than there are grains of sand , is that impossible because your imagination can not comprehend the enormity?

Im not going to try to understand the logic of life surviving death, I could speculate but it would be just that. I have had reason to believe our soul survives our bodily death but beyond that I have no reasoning.
0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:41 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;91743 wrote:
What fuels these beings to exist? You can't have infinite energy for a soul.


What makes you think a spiritual being requires physical energy? As I understand it, the soul is conceived an 'ethereal being'. Does an ethereal being require physical energy?

As regards the 'number of souls': if you could imagine not only this vast cosmos with many billions of potentially life-bearing orbs, but also the possibility that there are other planes of existence into and out of which beings might pass, the fact that we are 6 billion souls at this time on the Earth might amount to a rounding error in the great scheme of things.


Krumple;91747 wrote:
. I am no more afraid of dying than I was afraid of being born.


You can recall that?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:47 am
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;91753 wrote:
What makes you think a spiritual being requires physical energy? As I understand it, the soul is conceived an 'ethereal being'. Does an ethereal being require physical energy?


What makes you think that you will become some ethereal being? This is pure guessing at it's finest. You have no basis for making such a claim.

jeeprs;91753 wrote:

As regards the 'number of souls': if you could imagine not only this vast cosmos with many billions of potentially life-bearing orbs, but also the possibility that there are other planes of existence into and out of which beings might pass, the fact that we are 6 billion souls at this time on the Earth might amount to a rounding error in the great scheme of things.


Rounding error? I am not sure what you mean by rounding error. So there is some being involved in tallying the finial total? Or are you saying there are not 6 billion people living today? I wasn't talking about actual living people, I was referring to the sum total of ALL people whom have ever lived. That number is huge.

jeeprs;91753 wrote:

You can recall that?


No, it is a joke. It implies that I have no fear and it also implies that while I was being born I was not aware of my emotions. While I die or after I am dead, I also won't be aware of my emotions. It's a play on words.

From bed to the bath to the bed.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:52 am
@Leonard,
Ahh but you don't know what will happen after you die do you? What makes you think you do please, pray tell?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:06 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91757 wrote:
Ahh but you don't know what will happen after you die do you? What makes you think you do please, pray tell?


Are you sure you want to ask me this question? Because if you say I can't qualify then no one can qualify. So all the remarks would become also unqualified. Do you want to leave it with it all being pure speculation?

I don't know, and I have never made a claim to know. The only thing I am using is what I do know. What I do know, does not match with how such an existence would work. It's called deductive reasoning.

It is funny Caroline that you chose me to ask this question to. But all the people before this, you never asked them what makes them think they know. So why are you singling me out?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:17 am
@Leonard,
Im not singling you out I dont know why you think that? It's just you made a statement along the lines of we feel nothing after death and I said how do you know, now you're hitting me with what, deductive reasoning, so you've deducted that because you do not know what happens after death there is nothing, on what reasoning is that based on please Krumple? Because if you do not know what happens after death how can you possibly know for sure there is nothing? If you do not have it, (the answer) how do you really know what happens. Huh? You dont know what happens and you can't prove other wise because no one has ever come back to tell us unless there is a fallen angel form the sky you'll never know will ya!
See ya.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:20 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91770 wrote:
Im not singling you out I dont know why you think that? It's just you made a statement along the lines of we feel nothing after death and I said how do you know, now you're hitting me with what, deductive reasoning, so you've deducted that because you do not know what happens after death there is nothing, on what reasoning is that based on please Krumple?
Thanks.


Well I don't remember being born. I don't remember having an existence before this life. So I am logically saying I won't remember feeling when I am dead. I can't say for certain that this is accurate. But it is the nearest to a rational argument that you can make.

Before life nothing. After life nothing. Seems logical to me.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:26 am
@Leonard,
How can you remember being born when you were only a tiny little baby, now you're a fully grown man and you got to look death in the face so you best be sure you leave on good terms because who knows you could come back as a rockwieller or something.
Thanks.

---------- Post added 09-19-2009 at 07:27 AM ----------

Ha, life, logic, rational, don't apply in the after life does it because they're all human qualities not spiritual, so you best be at peace with yourself before you leave.
Thanks.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:36 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91777 wrote:
How can you remember being born when you were only a tiny little baby, now you're a fully grown man and you got to look death in the face so you best be sure you leave on good terms because who knows you could come back as a rockwieller or something.
Thanks.


You are right, that is one possibility. But would it be me? Would I actually be the dog or would that being be something new? You bring up a great question, but I have a unique perspective on this.

The person I was at age five, is not the same person talking to you now. The person talking to you now, will not be the same person talking to you tomorrow. I will have changed, perhaps grown, understood something more, or perhaps less (if you want to be fair). But it will not be me, or the same me, because the self is constantly changing. The only thing that links me to the five year old, is memory. If I had no memory of being five, I would never talk about being five. I can't even prove that I was five. There is absolutely nothing that I can use to convince you that I was ever five years old. The only thing we have to base it on is memory.

But what are memories? Are they stored in a super computer somewhere and just downloaded to our brains? Because from all the medical study that I have done, memories seem to be stored in the brain. Once the brain is damaged or ceases to function, it would seem that all those memories would be lost as well. If they are not lost, why are they not lost? Why would brain injuries cause memory problems but if the memories were stored outside our brain, why can't we access them then?

As the days go on, I remember less and less of being younger. Some times I can even remember a majority of the days of last year. Only specific things stick out in my mind. A majority of my life, I do not remember at all. There are only bits and pieces that I can recall. So after we die will we have absolute recall on every single memory? Or just bits and pieces?

Caroline;91777 wrote:

Ha, life logic, rational, dont apply in the afte life does it becasue they're all human qualities not spiritual, so you best be at peace with yourself before you leave.
See ya!


You are right, they are not spiritual, but then again I have no idea what spiritual even is. No one can even explain it so it appears to be nothing different than a fairytale. A wish in the sky, a hope or a dream. If it is something substantial why can we not identify it? I have no peace to settle because I am not in any sort of conflict.

EDIT: Actually on second thought, I am in conflict. If something can not be known or experienced, then why must it still be dealt with?
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:44 am
@Leonard,
Well krumple you get what ever you deserve, that's all. Spiritual is what's inside, your soul, can you not feel it? And you must treat it right with care and respect all else it could all go very wrong for you because what else is there Krumple, huh?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:50 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91791 wrote:
Well krumple you get what ever you deserve, that's all. Spiritual is what's inside, your soul, can you not feel it? And you must treat it right with care and respect all else it could all go very wrong for you because what else is there Krumple, huh?


I don't know what that means. The only thing I do know is that I was taught by my parents and by society how to interact with them. I've been told what to believe and I have been told to question. All I know is that I am as blind as everyone else, but instead of just accepting stuff, I must question, I can't just accept something because it sounds good. I don't work that way, I can't work that way.
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:52 am
@Leonard,
No you dont have to accept anything, i dont think anyone's asking you too or else that would be force wouldn't it but you must find your own path of enlightenment Krumple not someone else's, whatever gave you that idea? Pray tell.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:53 am
@Caroline,
When does wishful thinking and logical process ever have common ground? When we consider the evidence it becomes personal and observing an others claim to a certain experience, is filled with doubt. Even I,who have by experience have been forced to reconsider my beliefs, still have trouble believing anothers claimed experience.

Its the nature of man and we can only examine these claims rationally to ever come to an understanding. For example, this is just a strange occurrence, one of my grandsons at the age of three suddenly tells us he lived two hundred years ago in America and he lost all his children in a house fire. Now ,we asked him to repeat this and to our amazement he repeated it word for word. Now im not giving this up as any proof but it becomes the individuals attitude how they interpret this . My wife put it down to his imagination,my son tells me, his son is always coming out with strange stories, his wife claims his been here before. I just dont know.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 06:56 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;91801 wrote:
No you dont have to accept anything, i dont think anyone's asking you too or else that would be force wouldn't it but you must find your own path of enlightenment Krumple not someone else's whatever gave you that idea? Pray tell.


I don't think it comes from a single source. You can learn stuff from everyone. I ask these questions as a challenge, isn't that what philosophy does? To challenge the mind? Or is it all just a quest to come up with the most cleverest phrases?

When I make these posts, I am not trying to dismiss someone, instead I am stating their answer isn't good enough for me, and here is why I feel it is not good enough for me. Then I pose my questions, and I ask, have you answered these questions? If you have answered these questions of mine can you fill me in on how you answered them?

That is all I am doing.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:01 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;91806 wrote:
I don't think it comes from a single source. You can learn stuff from everyone. I ask these questions as a challenge, isn't that what philosophy does? To challenge the mind? Or is it all just a quest to come up with the most cleverest phrases?

When I make these posts, I am not trying to dismiss someone, instead I am stating their answer isn't good enough for me, and here is why I feel it is not good enough for me. Then I pose my questions, and I ask, have you answered these questions? If you have answered these questions of mine can you fill me in on how you answered them?

That is all I am doing.
Krumps would you ever consider an others experience, say your mothers or fathers. Would you discount it immediately ? analyse it and if inconclusive dismiss it.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Sep, 2009 07:10 am
@xris,
xris;91811 wrote:
Krumps would you ever consider an others experience, say your mothers or fathers. Would you discount it immediately ? analyse it and if inconclusive dismiss it.


Well I have to be fair, I would analyze it. To be honest there are times when I have outright rejected something without giving it fair examination. But I try to quell such behavior and be as impartial as I can. I also don't give absolute knowledge over to any one person, weather it be friends or family or from strangers. Their wisdom or knowledge is all on equal par and I don't alter my opinion on a friendship bias. I have friends here on the board, but I challenge them all the same as with those who I wouldn't consider friends.

I respect those who can fire back at me (sorta speak)
 

 
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