prosthesis with implications for philosophy of mind

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BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | New robotic hand 'can feel'

a Swedish man, Robin af Ekenstam, had his right hand amputated to save him from a malignant tumor in his wrist. at first, he received a humdrum prosthetic "hook," but has since become the recipient of a highly articulate bionic hand which is much more dexterous than the crude designs currently in use

even so, his prosthesis would only be a sophisticated piece of machinery, interesting yes, groundbreaking, no, but for one awesome detail:

it has feeling in it

there are afferent connections from the artificial hand that speak the language of the peripheral nervous system ... this guy really has feeling in his Robocop hand!

discuss

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@odenskrigare,

I am a bit torn by this...

At first, I am excited by the findings. One small step for man, one giant leap for AI enthusiasts! Once again, it appears that Searle's China Room argument is under attack and slowly becoming burried by new data. Although, when I think about it, it doesnt really come as a shock to me. For people can have feeling in their hands without even having hands! (i.e. phantom limbs) ...So then I wondered if his mind was just tricking him, so-to-speak. But after watching it again he said he regained feeling in his hand and this is probably due to the receptors in the prosthetic that are sending information into the PNS, and thus traveling to the brain and CNS. All in all, good stuff.

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@Kielicious,

Kielicious;98831 wrote:

I am a bit torn by this...

At first, I am excited by the findings. One small step for man, one giant leap for AI enthusiasts! Once again, it appears that Searle's China Room argument is under attack and slowly becoming burried by new data. Although, when I think about it, it doesnt really come as a shock to me. For people can have feeling in their hands without even having hands! (i.e. phantom limbs) ...So then I wondered if his mind was just tricking him, so-to-speak. But after watching it again he said he regained feeling in his hand and this is probably due to the receptors in the prosthetic that are sending information into the PNS, and thus traveling to the brain and CNS. All in all, good stuff.

it's different than having nothing at all. first of all the hand looks way different from a meat hand. second, he had to learn how to use it, indicating that the brain underwent some special process to get used to it, making the phenomenon distinct from phantom limb. finally the sensation is specific to the finger tips, although I wonder whether there might be some proprioceptive feeling, too

I posted this news first on a Swedish forum. one of the members knows this guy

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@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;98834 wrote:

it's different than having nothing at all. first of all the hand looks way different from a meat hand. second, he had to learn how to use it, indicating that the brain underwent some special process to get used to it, making the phenomenon distinct from phantom limb. finally the sensation is specific to the finger tips, although I wonder whether there might be some proprioceptive feeling, too

I posted this news first on a Swedish forum. one of the members knows this guy

Yes, the video doesnt go into complete detail so Im wondering if I can find some more info on it to see how exactly the experiment went underway and the quantifiable data that came from it.

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@odenskrigare,

Mind Hacks: Inhabiting a robot hand

try here maybe?

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@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;98765 wrote:

it has feeling in it

there are afferent connections from the artificial hand that speak the language of the peripheral nervous system ... this guy really has feeling in his Robocop hand!

It would be interesting to know the degree to which this guy had phantom limb sensations before receiving this new prosthesis. Loss of afferent input for long enough can lead to loss of cortical receptivity (think of amblyopia as a classic example). So I'd imagine that different people would be differentially responsive to this kind of technology.

---------- Post added 10-20-2009 at 10:54 PM ----------

odenskrigare;98834 wrote:

finally the sensation is specific to the finger tips, although I wonder whether there might be some proprioceptive feeling, too

The fingertips have plenty of proprioceptive feeling. We test it in people with peripheral neuropathy, like diabetics. Just close your eyes and passively lift your fingertip up or down (touching the sides of the digit so you can't feel up/down pressure) -- you'll know where it is.

But it would be highly unlikely that true discriminative sense would be possible with this device -- the density of neurons would have to be incredibly high (and his brain would have to train itself differently too). In other words, do you think this guy's new hand can tell the difference between a penny and a nickel with his eyes closed? If you lightly poked a fingertip with two pins that were 2mm apart could he tell it's two pokes and not one?

Obviously there are a lot of different types of sensation -- proprioception/position, vibration, discriminative / light touch, and pain/temperature being the main kinds, each with different peripheral nerve biology and with different spinal pathways (i.e. dorsal columns vs spinothalamic tract).

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@odenskrigare,

yeah

well the Department of Defense, who were involved in a similar project specified that they wanted a replacement arm able to distinguish a grape and a raisin in real time, so it may well be possible

onwards and upwards

---------- Post added 10-21-2009 at 04:53 AM ----------

Aedes;98899 wrote:

It would be interesting to know the degree to which this guy had phantom limb sensations before receiving this new prosthesis. Loss of afferent input for long enough can lead to loss of cortical receptivity (think of amblyopia as a classic example). So I'd imagine that different people would be differentially responsive to this kind of technology.

I don't know, but the first recipients of successful retinal implants have been blind for years

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@odenskrigare,

There are also many peop[le who suffer from what is known as Phantom pain.

This is a mysterious ailment that torments those who have suffered the loss of a limb and yet can still feel pain from a limb that is no longer there. Can you imagine the mind torturing you so much and not even being able to rub the afflicted area.

The mind is certainly a mysterious thing to consider.

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@odenskrigare,

phantom limb pain - Google Scholar (almost 24,000 hits)

as it so happens, not playing the Wizard of Oz routine with the severed hand is what enabled these doctors to restore some real functionality to Herr af Ekenstam

just think, if our entire philosophy of mind were reared on "THAT" and "everything is in flux," then he wouldn't be able to feel things in that new hand again today

would he?
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@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;98950 wrote:

phantom limb pain - Google Scholar (almost 24,000 hits)

as it so happens, not playing the Wizard of Oz routine with the severed hand is what enabled these doctors to restore some real functionality to Herr af Ekenstam

just think, if our entire philosophy of mind were reared on "THAT" and "everything is in flux," then he wouldn't be able to feel things in that new hand again today

would he?

Actually what you are missing is the key to the success in the first place, which is that without the vital life force within him, and his mind, to go along with the physiology of the brain, he wouldn't be able to experience anything of that prosthetic at all now, WOULD HE?

If they had put that piece of technology on something without a mind or life, there wouldn't be much feeling taking place now, WOULD THERE?

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@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder;98965 wrote:

Actually what you are missing is the key to the success in the first place, which is that without the vital life force within him, and his mind, to go along with the physiology of the brain, he wouldn't be able to experience anything of that prosthetic at all now, WOULD HE?

the mind and life are both emergent phenomena of basic non-living physical parts

this prosthesis gives support to what I am saying

as far as I'm concerned, it may one day be possible to build entirely artificial persons, with no appeal to a "vital life force"

and it looks like that's the road we're headed down anyway

YouTube - Grendel - New Flesh

lol

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prosthesis with implications for philosophy of mind

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