Purpose and Attitude for Philosophizing

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Almost everyone will agree that philosophy is about contemplating about the problems of conduct, problem of governance, and of course the problem of knowledge. There may be many other problems but ultimately they are still related to any of the three I stated.

A man who can eloquently explain himself and provide logical scientific explanations on the validity of his knowledge may still face a lot of problems when faced with problems concerning governance and conduct or would never care at all.

These problems, conduct, governance, knowledge, are undeniably what problems man in reality. If so, I guess it is not illogical to assimilate even the problems themselves to form a coherent whole that would and could guide men in general. But is it really possible to find consonance among these three without finding a connection or external reason. Let' say we give priority to science, then almost everything would be explained scientifically, many moral precepts will be gone, like for example eugenics may be supported or actually must be advocated, favoring the existence of "higher evolved" race or species.

In the event of eugenics, would you sacrifice yourself because they thought you were dumb for the good of mankind to favor the progress of evolution? Is that a noble sacrifice or is it a dumber move? If it is a dumber move then why? It is dumber because it is the only life you have. If it is the only life you have, then why do something that will benefit others and deprive you or give you some temporal pain or discomfort? If what is important is only you, then subjugate everyone. If you find that tyranny is wrong then it goes back to the problem of conduct and governance. It doesn't solve anything.

The ultimate question is who or what is the bigger umbrella that harmonizes and finds connection with regard to these three problems?

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@Patty phil,

The answer does not have much to do with philosophy, and the reason philosophers do not get it is that they are broken, and live only in their minds... Most people live in their emotions, and there, natural conduct knows no extremes...

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@Fido,

Certainly philosophers since Aristotle have emphasized a separation of self by rationalizing, thinking only, as if it could be seperated from one's whole being. This is why Aristotle is so refreshing as he concerns ( in his ethics ) a philosophy about living which corresponds to reality which he attempts to interpret in Metaphysics, Physics,On the Soul.....The combination is a complete being....not the abstact rational philosophizing which is unproductive and blind.......Logos

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@Patty phil,

Complete beings do not do philosophy...Look at how many happy relationships philosophy has spawned... Socrates lived in a culvert... The closest Nietzsche ever got to a romance was a prostitute... Most people live in their emotions... Philosophers live in their thoughts, and it makes them rare and stupid, because they cannot see what everyone feels...

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@Fido,

Fido wrote:

Complete beings do not do philosophy...Look at how many happy relationships philosophy has spawned... Socrates lived in a culvert... The closest Nietzsche ever got to a romance was a prostitute... Most people live in their emotions... Philosophers live in their thoughts, and it makes them rare and stupid, because they cannot see what everyone feels...

Your response is quite offensive and very subjective. You speak as if all philosophers are unhappy loners (not to say that all loners are unhappy). Plenty of academic philosophers have wives, children, and friends. Epicurus, for example, lived the life of a thinker but he did not deny his emotions. He was celibate because he believed that it would cause him less grief, but he strongly believed in the value of fellowship.

Philosophers spend their whole lives trying to understand why everyone feels the way that they feel. They spend their lives examining reality and the human experience. You say that philosophers are rare and stupid. Some people say that the common person is common and stupid, but I refuse to resort to calling people names. Different people have different personalities and live different lives. The path you choose in life is yours alone. How you treat people while on that path, and whether or not the path makes you content and happy is the question that one must ask themselves.

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@Fido,

Fido wrote:

Complete beings do not do philosophy...Look at how many happy relationships philosophy has spawned... Socrates lived in a culvert... The closest Nietzsche ever got to a romance was a prostitute... Most people live in their emotions... Philosophers live in their thoughts, and it makes them rare and stupid, because they cannot see what everyone feels...

I think you have this wrong Fido. Complete beings philosophize and incomplete beings do not. Most people live in their emotions because they do not have proper mechanisms to deal with emotions properly. People that are capable of living beyond emotions are more inclined to entertain conceptual thought as well as emotional thought because their lives are not consumed with emotional stimuli.

Your post is filled with too many non sequiturs that are not worth the time to consider seriously.

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@Theaetetus,

Complete beings philosophize better than non complete, not from a lack of understanding that comes from want ( i.e. not that htey have not experienced doing without ) but because of growing towards the completion and away from the diminished state. No one is born complete, but some move in that direction...λογος

---------- Post added at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:55 PM ----------

Fido wrote:

Complete beings do not do philosophy...Look at how many happy relationships philosophy has spawned... Socrates lived in a culvert... The closest Nietzsche ever got to a romance was a prostitute... Most people live in their emotions... Philosophers live in their thoughts, and it makes them rare and stupid, because they cannot see what everyone feels...

Nietzsche does not equal Aristotle simply because both are termed 'philosophers'. .......λογος

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@Patty phil,

Patty wrote:

These problems, conduct, governance, knowledge, are undeniably what problems man in reality... But is it really possible to find consonance among these three without finding a connection or external reason...
The ultimate question is who or what is the bigger umbrella that harmonizes and finds connection with regard to these three problems?

I don't know that there is one that harmonizes thoroughly. You mentioned "reason" as a potential 'harmonizer'; the only other I could think of would be Utility; but that, too, is a stretch. My gut says there probably isn't a single binding factor to your three areas. Conduct - to my mind - has to be based in respect for the individual to do any good at all. Knowledge, also, is worthless if based upon only one premise (e.g., evidential or rational). Governance is a whole other ball of wax.

So I'd say that given the framework of your question; Reason (which could involve as many other 'aspects' as is necessary) is the closest you'll come to finding one common denominator that could serve as a basis for your "top three". Interesting question though; very unique.

Fido wrote:

Complete beings do not do philosophy...Look at how many happy relationships philosophy has spawned... Socrates lived in a culvert... The closest Nietzsche ever got to a romance was a prostitute... Most people live in their emotions... Philosophers live in their thoughts, and it makes them rare and stupid, because they cannot see what everyone feels...

Awww... Fido: So I take it you don't see much use for philosophy in achieving a happier, more peaceful or 'fulfilled' life? :saddened:

That last sentence is a bit over the edge. You might be well justified in claiming philosophy makes some "rare and stupid" or some"Philosophers live in their thoughts"; but as is, both remain unjustified, unsubstantiated generalizations. Unless; of course, you happen to have personally & intimately known all philosophers who've ever lived (in which case I'll both beg your pardon and ask for your autograph).

In any case, these sentiments are well inline with the topic. Still, I have to wonder: How is it that you've come to such a negative view of philosophers, philosophy (in general) and their place in the world? How is it that one isn't "complete" if they "do philosophy"? In my experience - unless someone goes too far over the edge in philosophical pondering - philosophy is just about the best way to enable becoming complete, in touch (or at least appreciative) with their emotions and intelligence (i.e., not stupid). Help!

Thanks

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@Khethil,

Quote:

Awww... Fido: So I take it you don't see much use for philosophy in achieving a happier, more peaceful or 'fulfilled' life? :saddened:

That last sentence is a bit over the edge. You might be well justified in claiming philosophy makes some "rare and stupid" or some"Philosophers live in their thoughts"; but as is, both remain unjustified, unsubstantiated generalizations. Unless; of course, you happen to have personally & intimately known all philosophers who've ever lived (in which case I'll both beg your pardon and ask for your autograph).

In any case, these sentiments are well inline with the topic. Still, I have to wonder: How is it that you've come to such a negative view of philosophers, philosophy (in general) and their place in the world? How is it that one isn't "complete" if they "do philosophy"? In my experience - unless someone goes too far over the edge in philosophical pondering - philosophy is just about the best way to enable becoming complete, in touch (or at least appreciative) with their emotions and intelligence (i.e., not stupid). Help!

I have to wonder why he's a senior member of this forum if he has such a negative view of philosophy.

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@hue-man,

hue-man wrote:

Your response is quite offensive and very subjective. You speak as if all philosophers are unhappy loners (not to say that all loners are unhappy). Plenty of academic philosophers have wives, children, and friends. Epicurus, for example, lived the life of a thinker but he did not deny his emotions. He was celibate because he believed that it would cause him less grief, but he strongly believed in the value of fellowship.

Philosophers spend their whole lives trying to understand why everyone feels the way that they feel. They spend their lives examining reality and the human experience. You say that philosophers are rare and stupid. Some people say that the common person is common and stupid, but I refuse to resort to calling people names. Different people have different personalities and live different lives. The path you choose in life is yours alone. How you treat people while on that path, and whether or not the path makes you content and happy is the question that one must ask themselves.

If you do not believe me; throw them on a scale, the happily married on the left and the loners, women haters, introverts, social failures on the other side...The whole thing will tip to the right...

Nietzsche was one of those who realized that people live in the irrational, and along with Freud and many others of that age was part of a general pushback against the age of reason... Few of us are rational...I am not at all certain I am... I live in the rational world because my emotion present such overwhelming trouble for me...My emotions which I cannot control, drive me into rationality which I can better manage... But I do not mean to say I am better, but only more aware of what failures most philosphers are with their relationships... At least I try to relate...Most just give up...

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@Patty phil,

Are we then stuck with analyses, contingent existence, semantics, languages, life, physics, Religion, etc.

Why philosophize if we don't seek to to harmonize?

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@Patty phil,

Bravo - excellent question.

Philosophy is only worthwhile insomuch as the ideals, possibilities and concepts we explore lead to quantifiable action in the here-and-now.

Harmonize... Sounds good, I used to sing a good bass

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@Patty phil,

Patty wrote:

Are we then stuck with analyses, contingent existence, semantics, languages, life, physics, Religion, etc.

Why philosophize if we don't seek to to harmonize?

Like Anni Defranco said: We barely have time to react in life let alone rehearse..
I would say, harmony is something we apply to reality that is very often so much dissonance...Isn't it better to find out what is as much as that is possible, and the apply aesthetics to the picture later???It is inevitable that we try to make sense of the whole, and seek some grand explaination for all... So, let it be inevitable, and make knowledge the first priority in a love of knowledge...

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

Khethil wrote:

Bravo - excellent question.

Philosophy is only worthwhile insomuch as the ideals, possibilities and concepts we explore lead to quantifiable action in the here-and-now.

Harmonize... Sounds good, I used to sing a good bass

I dis agree... Every time we act we act out of ignorance... Everytime we act we cause injury to our kind, or to others... The object of philosophy is to avoid activity, and to minimize ignorance in our activity... Socrates had it right in saying that Knowledge is Virtue, because the more ignorant are people of consequences the more they want to do, do, do... Those he influenced thought to take over their society because they knew, and so were in their thoughts more virtuous... They told Socrates to arrest a man and deliver him to his death... Socrates went home... Doing good is not the object of philosophy...Knowing good, which is often the same as doing nothing is the object of philosophy...Socrates was right in sending a **** to the God Aesculapius... The object of medicine and philosophy are the same: First, do no harm...

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Purpose and Attitude for Philosophizing

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