@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;100079 wrote:Fido,
S9: You are sounding a bit like Confucius, and how he bases the running of the state upon the same principles as that of a family, and its relationships within the family, run well. He also saw family as a natural social network.
Am I seeing your point correctly?
You use the word "good" quite often to explain yourself, (good examples, good society, good people, good ideas), and then go on to claim that 'good" is not an idea. I am having a little trouble with this. What is "good" if it is not a subjective evaluation (AKA an idea or concept)?
Perhaps all forums or government proceed naturally out of who we are as a group. Even a tyranny is in need of a willing victim.
Perhaps too, everything that is natural to our species is insidious, will repeat again and again, not just tyranny. We might equally say that love is insidious. (If we wished to put a pejorative twist on it.
Change is not difficult to bring about. It is constant. What is actually difficult is directed change, or getting everyone in line and into agreement. It is a little like trying to herd cats.
S9
It is obvious and true; but the nuclear family is a vestige of a much larger family support group and community... Ethics as an idea and a word go back to this time because each person was a representative of his community and he could stand for them in vengeance or in assault... There was community responsibility for its members, so custom and character became the means of curing children from their stupidity... Now we cannot discipline our children in our homes, so how much law which sees all people as individuals will it take to discipline them in prison???I wouldn't want to beat my children for this society, but the sense that I could do so without having to justify it to no one wouuld be an aid... When ever I said spank to my children they said 9 11... Checkmate... Go raise yourself...Our state makes a mockery of equality... The state says we are equal and then goes about proving we are not. .. We know we have no equality, and when they finish we will be less equal... Under Feudalism the rich and the state were the same... Lord is the joining law and ward....So what if the rich and the government should join forces against us??? Their feudalism is our socialism... We are forced to endure together more and more of less and less which is teaching us to share our space and rub shoulders with the condemned, the luckless, and the hopeless... Some of us try to build a larger family of support around the aimless seeming rafts of strangers... We have to be prepared for worse... That is something we must do together...
We cannot look to the state for any effective government....They are always prepared for better even among the reports of worse..They look forward to war, and they give to the military the best of its affection...Yet; many of the officers are well off, and service pays them well...Generals are not real, but it is the same with the wealthy... Even the president is surrounded with a Pretorian Guard... After hundreds of years the disaffected, the crazy, and frustrated litter our nation... There is no doubt that many would take a pot shot... The number of those who would change more than they keep is growing...
To be rid of the state we must have strong communities, and if communities do not have control over their own they are not communities...The purpose of communities is defense, exactly that of law or military.... Now communities need defense from law and military...Why should anyone pay their dues and meet their social obligations if their communities can offer them no defense... I could not begin to stop any state official from walking in here and kidnapping my children with or without good cause...If the defense of them is always impinged upon by legal doubt, what good am I to them... There gets to be a point where the innocent must fear law more than the guilty... So much that injures people is the process...Contact with law ruins a lot of people and brutalizes the brutal... We do not ask what sort of person wants to be a cop, a killer, or a criminal...And we should... We want people cured of anti social behavior... As bad as my kids are I cannot imagine the state doing better with them...It might rectify them, or steal all that makes them human... The family is on the ropes, but the family is all that protects the state from revolution, because if the old lose all their influence with the young tthings are going to change... When the young get sick of life without hope, and realize that there is not space in prison for them all they might explode into violence... Who knows what foot could trip that trap...
