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Debating

 
 
Elmud
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 05:10 pm
I am not very proficient at debating a subject. I admit this. I am a non confrontational person be it physical, or verbal. I tend to shy away from arguing simply because it makes me feel ill at ease. When i do jump into a fray, like a fish out of water, I do not do so well. I prefer to share ideas and try to inspire a few thoughts from others. So, I am not a debater.

But, what I was wanting to understand, is what constitutes proper debating etiquette? What is the right way, and what is the wrong way. What ethics are involved? Speaking to another in a condescending tone or, belittling anothers ideas, things like that. What are the rules of debating if there are any, and what are the ethics involved? Just curious.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 763 • Replies: 10
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Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 05:43 pm
@Elmud,
Good questions.

For some rules I recommend looking into informal rules of logic and logical fallacies.
List of fallacies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Past that, just try to be nice. I think you've got that part down pretty well.
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 06:40 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
I am not very proficient at debating a subject. I admit this. I am a non confrontational person be it physical, or verbal. I tend to shy away from arguing simply because it makes me feel ill at ease. When i do jump into a fray, like a fish out of water, I do not do so well. I prefer to share ideas and try to inspire a few thoughts from others. So, I am not a debater.

But, what I was wanting to understand, is what constitutes proper debating etiquette? What is the right way, and what is the wrong way. What ethics are involved? Speaking to another in a condescending tone or, belittling anothers ideas, things like that. What are the rules of debating if there are any, and what are the ethics involved? Just curious.


I don't think there are any rules about how to debate simply because of our differences in character.

Here are a few I try my best to keep to

Dont call someone a liar

Dont insult another debater

Dont curse or swear

Use the terms , "In my opinion or respectfully I disagree"

Never call another stupid

Dont question his language skills rather look at his logic

If they continue to insult you, use the ignore function on the forum

Always try your best to be polite, I try hard but do not succeed always

Learn from others and be open to change your position

Debating is a skill you must learn , practice makes perfect, don't be shy jump into the waters of dialogue, you might surprise yourself with your insight

I hope this helps but I am sure you are aware of all this
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 01:43 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud;59286 wrote:
I am not very proficient at debating a subject. I admit this. I am a non confrontational person be it physical, or verbal. I tend to shy away from arguing simply because it makes me feel ill at ease. When i do jump into a fray, like a fish out of water, I do not do so well. I prefer to share ideas and try to inspire a few thoughts from others. So, I am not a debater.

But, what I was wanting to understand, is what constitutes proper debating etiquette? What is the right way, and what is the wrong way. What ethics are involved? Speaking to another in a condescending tone or, belittling anothers ideas, things like that. What are the rules of debating if there are any, and what are the ethics involved? Just curious.

Some food for thought;
I'm not too sure of the ultimate fruitfulness of egoically attempting to convince all that you are 'right' and the other is 'wrong'. 'Winning' a debate doesn't seem to change the mind of the 'loser'. It seems to be an egoic contest and little more. A win/lose ego strokin' game.
The days of 'win/lose' are over.
Win/win is possible;
Might it not be more fruitful for all to attempt to understand how the other Perspective can be correct, as it obviously is correct from the 'other' Perspective.
'This' Perspective + another Perspective = a 'larger' Perspective with a greater 'included angle'. Both benefit. Win/win!
All Perspectives are valid features of 'reality/existence'.
"The complete definition/description of the universe/existence is the sum-total of all Perspectives." - Book of Fudd
rhinogrey
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 02:14 pm
@nameless,
nameless wrote:
Some food for thought;
I'm not too sure of the ultimate fruitfulness of egoically attempting to convince all that you are 'right' and the other is 'wrong'. 'Winning' a debate doesn't seem to change the mind of the 'loser'. It seems to be an egoic contest and little more. A win/lose ego strokin' game.
The days of 'win/lose' are over.
Win/win is possible;
Might it not be more fruitful for all to attempt to understand how the other Perspective can be correct, as it obviously is correct from the 'other' Perspective.
'This' Perspective + another Perspective = a 'larger' Perspective with a greater 'included angle'. Both benefit. Win/win!
All Perspectives are valid features of 'reality/existence'.
"The complete definition/description of the universe/existence is the sum-total of all Perspectives." - Book of Fudd


Great idea.

I prefer not to debate as such, and instead to throw ideas out there and see how people respond. I like to take the responses in, rather than trying to prove my own position correct.

All of the academic debates I have witnessed since entering University have ended with both parties walking away convinced of the very same thing they were convinced of before the debate began. Both sides preach to their respective choirs, and the whole thing is nothing more than cerebral masturbation. Games for intellectuals with no real bearing on the way one can apply philosophy to his life.

My project is to find ways to reconcile the debaters' positions into a more cohesive worldview, while the debaters themselves remain stuck in the dogmatic muck beneath their feet.

Consume contradictions and reconcile them in your actions. Life is only possible with divergence.

Don't be afraid to contradict yourself -- do not find virtue in consistency. Life will contradict you anyway.
0 Replies
 
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 05:53 pm
@Elmud,
Well said.

rhinogrey;62301 wrote:
Don't be afraid to contradict yourself -- do not find virtue in consistency. Life will contradict you anyway.

All apparent 'contradictions' are also features of Reality!
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 08:19 am
@nameless,
nameless wrote:
Well said.


All apparent 'contradictions' are also features of Reality!


A debate is not about winning It is about convincing your opponent they are wrong or learn you are wrong and humbly admit it
nameless
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 May, 2009 04:54 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;62420 wrote:
A debate is not about winning It is about convincing your opponent they are wrong

Means 'winning'. All ego. "I'm 'right' and you are 'wrong'. Now you can be more like me!" Ego! Obsolete.

Are you trying to argue the validity of my statement?;
All apparent 'contradictions' are also features of Reality!
You must be, as it refutes your statement regarding 'right' and 'wrong'.
I'd be happy to 'elucidate' (aid in your understanding of) the statement if you'd like to critically examine it. I already understand 'ego'Perspective.

Quote:
or learn you are wrong and humbly admit it

Hahahaha! No, I mean in the real world. A 'debate' is ego. Show me an example of a real debate here where anyone has responded as you suggest. I'd be surprised if in more than one in a thousand real debates anyone ever actually changes their mind/thinks differently afterward. If anyone is ever, thereby, 'convinced'. Statistically speaking, there must be one or two around, but the 'spikes' on the chart just go to prove the rule...
gone
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 05:05 am
@nameless,
Avoid circular or 'straw man' arguments

Also - please don't blurt out 'but that's just my opinion' as a means of defense...expressing opinions/viewpoints is how we argue
0 Replies
 
jgweed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 07:07 am
@Elmud,
One can view a debate as a method of "testing" a particular position by subjecting it to the kind of scrutiny a thought-contest involves. It may be that neither side's mind is changed---that might not be the point---but perhaps the auditors' are, or at least they are witness to the intense discussion that might cause new viewpoints to be opened up to their thinking, as Nameless suggests.

From another perspective, debate is useful to both sides. Being able to present the best arguments in the most forceful and clear manner, to answer objections (and to be made aware of them), and to subject isolated thinking to a public forum is not just a mere mental exercise of Sophism, but improves one's own ability to think.

And there are commonly accepted rules for debate, in which it is the ideas and arguments presented, not the people involved, that are attacked by close scrutiny and examination. It formal situations, for example (and for similar reasons, one remembers, the tradition in the House of Commons) people's names are never used.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 09:01 am
@jgweed,
jgweed;71698 wrote:
One can view a debate as a method of "testing" a particular position by subjecting it to the kind of scrutiny a thought-contest involves. It may be that neither side's mind is changed---that might not be the point---but perhaps the auditors' are, or at least they are witness to the intense discussion that might cause new viewpoints to be opened up to their thinking, as Nameless suggests.

From another perspective, debate is useful to both sides. Being able to present the best arguments in the most forceful and clear manner, to answer objections (and to be made aware of them), and to subject isolated thinking to a public forum is not just a mere mental exercise of Sophism, but improves one's own ability to think.

And there are commonly accepted rules for debate, in which it is the ideas and arguments presented, not the people involved, that are attacked by close scrutiny and examination. It formal situations, for example (and for similar reasons, one remembers, the tradition in the House of Commons) people's names are never used.


I agree this is what debating is all about, not trying to show how clever you are and by implication insult another. It is our very differences that makes this the best forum I have had the pleasure of being a member. Great post thank you Alan :bigsmile:
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