1
   

Thought and Self-Awareness

 
 
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2009 03:33 am
I have been forced to reconsider some portion of previous understanding for a degree of newer understanding. But as I said earlier, as disturbing as that can be, it is always cause for celebration whenever one manages to further their understanding through logical thought. I am certainly not declaring any truths or prophetic revelations. What I am claiming is that through a process of rational thinking, evasion of traditional and secular opinions, and sheer determination, I am gaining a better understanding of my life, as I am able to comprehend it.

As you know, I believe that there is most definitely an intelligent force behind creation. If we walked into the forest and came upon a towering fortress we would immediately know that someone had built the structure. We would certainly not consider it an accidental happening. I refuse to define what that creative intelligence is, I simply refer to it as the great mystery. As with the builder of the fortress, I know that the builder of creation exists, I just have no idea who or what it is.

So beginning from that attitude, I surmise that the human is designed by this great mystery. And because we know the human is capable of theorizing beyond the ability of the plant and animal kingdoms, I also surmise that the creator 'deliberately' designed us with such ability. Purposeful intent is usually done with an objective reasoning. There is usually an objective to the purpose. To my thinking, if the creator had a purpose behind the human being designed with a capacity to improve their intellect, than it stands to reason that the goal of the human is to acheive that improvement.

So, if you consider this so far as being at least worth listening to, you might find the following to be at least entertaining.

Given what we know about the human capacity for improving thought, regardless of the origin of it, we can agree that there is a great span between the mind of the oaf and the mind of the wise man. It is at this point of acknowledgement that I begin this topic in my blog in much greater detail if you are interested in reading that. For the purpose of etiquette here on the board, I must summarize my findings which degrades the logic to a great degree.

I think that the gulf between the simple minded oaf and the wise man is too great to be breached in the span of what a person can acheive in one lifetime. Therefore it must be agreed that to reach higher levels of comprehension and wisdom one must attain the ability from birth. One will not be born with the mental capability of an oaf and attain such intellect as the great scholars within the same lifetime. And yet, the goal of the human to acheive such levels, designed into him by the creator, purposefully, requires that such acquisition be possible.

So how could it be possible if it cannot be done in the course of one lifetime? The only answer is that there must be a possibility of transferance through more than one lifetime. And this is not illogical because we know from our present situation this can be done at least once, so why not more than once? This is why I strongly lean toward the possibility that this "life giving force" that brings both life and an evolved degree of intellect to the human containing it, must be passed on through reincarnation.

So what does this have to do with identity of the 'inner self' and how has my thinking been altered?

I have contended that the inner self was a spiritual identity which was what was transferred from one incarnation to another. And because of that self awareness definition I had difficulty comprehending how the identity would be retained when the next incarnation would have no recall of its past lives.

It is one thing to be aware of your inner self, and another to identify yourself with it. Whatever the strange "life giving force" within you can be defined as, it certainly is bonded with your identity in your thinking. That comes from an inability to define that which is incomprehensible, mainly a created thing, of a mysterious creator.

So I was forced to break it down into its most simple, basic concept. And when I related this inner "life giving force" to the creator's interaction with what it creates, and the need to continue the evolution of thought, I realized that we were not talking about something spiritual in the sense that this inner awareness is one's spiritual identity; instead we were talking about the continuation of the creator's original thought and purpose, being manifested in the human as it is spawned to life. In this physical body each of us carries the continuing thought of this creator, which evolves individually as separate life giving forces, which enable the humans they dwell in.

Existence is neatly wrapped around this entire thought process, originating with the mysterious creator, proceeding into the human, and interacting with creation through the human. The human is a vessel of the creator's thought, and their individual identity is that of a simple "life giving force" transferring from one incarnation to another, all the while bound to the original thought of creation.

I am a thought of the Creator, and at this time I am known as Pathfinder. When I leave this body I will bring life, and whatever degree of wisdom and intelligence I have acquired throughout my history of reincarnations, to the next incarnation, where I will assume a new name and body. The new incarnation will have to learn how to use my "life giving force" and access its level of intellect to learn and continue to evolve me.

What evolves is not the human. What is reincarnated is not the identity or person or inner self. What continues is this thought of the Creator that instills life, and which brings an evolving, progressing potential of intellectual capability to each of its hosts. I am this "life giving force" , this mystery. I cannot be defined, but I can be observed. What I gain is evident in the quaility, character and intelligence of the human forms I inhabit. Each has its own lifetime choices and decisions to make, but my presence within assists in making each host what it becomes, as well as evolving the inner force within them that is me.

My moral character and integrity, and my wisdom and knowledge, developed over lifetimes of experience in various human identities, is retained and passed on throughout the incarnations, evolving and growing, being perfected and improved upon with each new lifetime. What I am acheiving in this present identity is the sole responsibility of this present identity, Pathfinder, who must make decisions and choices in life's trials and encounters. I am along for the ride and assisting with what I have to offer, but ultimately what will become Pathfinder's legacy will be the improved version of the "life giving force" that I am.

I hope that you will take the time to read the blog section called The Human Identity, Natural Logic: The Human Identity where this is elaborated on in much more depth.

Sincerely,
Pathfinder
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,040 • Replies: 9
No top replies

 
KaseiJin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2009 11:29 pm
@Pathfinder,
I appreciate the time, energy, and creativeness that went into that well written presentation. I applaud that!

If I were to take the thread's title into consideration, and focus on that as giving some great degree of theme indication, I may be able to carry on discussion here. It appears, at least, that the OP is not quite as discussion/debate formatted as is common, and thus would like to first ask if discussion/debate on this is acceptable.

I both reason and feel that there may well prove to be a few areas which could be poked and tested a bit more. As time allows, I'll get to the more formal blog outline, to back up this particular public presentation.
Pathfinder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 06:46 am
@KaseiJin,
Everything is always open for discussion to bring new thought processes and possible further learning to any point of interest.

This is how I attain knowledge and enhance my life force.
0 Replies
 
Pathfinder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 04:52 pm
@Pathfinder,
We can begin here Rich. Is there any particular place you would like to start?...incarnation, first cause, evolution...?
KaseiJin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 08:42 pm
@Pathfinder,
I did print out that blog, and read over it...and with your having disappeared from the scene for a while, let it be--I'm always very busy anyway, on don't always have the luxury to spend much time on line in one setting, or be here that much either as may be the case for many of us at times. I'll see if there are some things that can stand to be worked over a bit here, and will start with the following:


Pathfinder;49652 wrote:
As you know, I believe that there is most definitely an intelligent force behind creation. If we walked into the forest and came upon a towering fortress we would immediately know that someone had built the structure. We would certainly not consider it an accidental happening. I refuse to define what that creative intelligence is, I simply refer to it as the great mystery. As with the builder of the fortress, I know that the builder of creation exists, I just have no idea who or what it is.


As this argument is used by Creationist of the Christian religious belief-system as well, it has been looked over a bit, and of course is not new. The key clause being 'I believe that there is . . .,' it is obvious that this is not something being claimed to be known, but to simply be 'belived.' That's fair enough, but why? We tend to know what animals build what, and tend to associate mental capacity for creativity with the objects or results of such creative activities (such as building a fortress in a forest), but to what degree of certainty we can apply that knowledge retroactively to the degree that we can assert that we know that a creative intelligence (again, a think defined in human terms by the mere fact that the H. sapien is) built (or designed, or created) nature?

Of course, this is a matter of a relgious belief-system-based field, rather than a mind field, and so do not think to push this here, in this forum . . . just presenting thoughts on that point.
0 Replies
 
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 12:04 am
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;84583 wrote:
We can begin here Rich. Is there any particular place you would like to start?...incarnation, first cause, evolution...?


Hi there,

I guess a good place to start would be for us to briefly exchange our own metaphysics. As I wrote earlier, I borrow from Eastern metaphysics with the following conception of the aspects of being human:


1) Shen: the Spirit. It is the spark of life. This would be the closest to the Western notion of Universal Consciousness. That which binds everything together.

2) Hun: the Soul. It is the transcendental aspect of the being that is exploring, learning, creating through multiple life times. It would be the source of such things as inherited characteristics, innate capabilities, etc.

3) Yi: the awareness/creative aspect. It uses the nervous system to receive information and to create new information.

4) Zhi: the Will. That which pushes us to live and evolve. It combines with the Yi.

5) Po: the physical life that we are living. It uses Yi and Zhi to keep itself alive.

It is a very interesting metaphysical structure and I have found many parallels with Heraclitus' view of the cosmos.

Hope you find this interesting. Maybe you can outline your perspective so that I can try to align my viewpoint with yours?

Rich
Pathfinder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 06:00 am
@richrf,
richrf;84662 wrote:
Hi there,

I guess a good place to start would be for us to briefly exchange our own metaphysics. As I wrote earlier, I borrow from Eastern metaphysics with the following conception of the aspects of being human:


1) Shen: the Spirit. It is the spark of life. This would be the closest to the Western notion of Universal Consciousness. That which binds everything together.

2) Hun: the Soul. It is the transcendental aspect of the being that is exploring, learning, creating through multiple life times. It would be the source of such things as inherited characteristics, innate capabilities, etc.

3) Yi: the awareness/creative aspect. It uses the nervous system to receive information and to create new information.

4) Zhi: the Will. That which pushes us to live and evolve. It combines with the Yi.

5) Po: the physical life that we are living. It uses Yi and Zhi to keep itself alive.

It is a very interesting metaphysical structure and I have found many parallels with Heraclitus' view of the cosmos.

Hope you find this interesting. Maybe you can outline your perspective so that I can try to align my viewpoint with yours?

Rich




Well I would say that I see the Shen and Hun as one and the same which in my attempt to understand I call LGF, or Life Giving Force. I see this as that mysterious force behind all of creation and life that is responsible for what becomes the living entity of a human being and is transferred from one incarnation to another.

As I always say, if it can happen once, it can certainly happen again and likely has happened before.

Awareness , creativity and will are all subject to the evolved state of the LGF of course and increases with experience and number of incarnations to acquire such experience.

It is easy to see where the religious people see the body as a tent containing the soul, but I prefer to avoid using terminologies that mimic the religious ones to avoid confusion. I am not religious and do not share any theist ideologies.

I guess my most prominent thought process to begin them all would probably strat with acknowledging an intelligent design to creation that I refuse to even attempt to define just for the sake of putting a face on it.

In my mind no scientist or philosopher has ever come close to understanding or defining what may be the designer or creator or whatever name one would like to call it.

Personally I see it only as a great mystery that defies comprehension, of which only its talents can be observed.

As for what Kaseijin just posted above, my mind cannot comprehend how a person can walk into a jungle and discover a detailed alaborately structured castle and not know that it stands there as a tribute to something other than natrual forces. I just cannot fathom how anyone can suggest that it could just be as any other part of the scenery. Any intelligent mind would know immediately that it had to be constructed by some other intelligence.

Intelligence recognizes intelligence, and unfortunately I do not recognize any intelligence in those that suggest a castle in the midst of a jungle is natural, or that a universe of such complexity is an accidental mishap.
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 11:12 am
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
Well I would say that I see the Shen and Hun as one and the same which in my attempt to understand I call LGF, or Life Giving Force. I see this as that mysterious force behind all of creation and life that is responsible for what becomes the living entity of a human being and is transferred from one incarnation to another.


Hi there Pathfinder,

I have adopted the Hun (individual soul) since it makes room for individual creativity and learning. It would be the wave in the ocean. The Ocean (Shen) gives birth to the Hun (individual soul).

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
Awareness , creativity and will are all subject to the evolved state of the LGF of course and increases with experience and number of incarnations to acquire such experience.


Yes, this would be very similar to my conception.

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
It is easy to see where the religious people see the body as a tent containing the soul, but I prefer to avoid using terminologies that mimic the religious ones to avoid confusion. I am not religious and do not share any theist ideologies.


I am not using it so much in a religious sense, but certainly spiritual. For me the soul represents all that has been learned by the individual through many lifetimes. More closely aligned with the Buddhist view.

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
I guess my most prominent thought process to begin them all would probably strat with acknowledging an intelligent design to creation that I refuse to even attempt to define just for the sake of putting a face on it.


Fair enough. My view is that it did start with Consciousness or the Dao, in Eastern terms. And from that came the Two (Yin/Yang), and then came Three, Yin/Yang and Qi/Chi energy, which creates the opposites and movement. This is very similar to what I glean out of Heraclitus' writings. Since Heraclitus lived on a trade route to the East, there may have been lots of give and take between the two cultures.

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
In my mind no scientist or philosopher has ever come close to understanding or defining what may be the designer or creator or whatever name one would like to call it.


This may be so, and may be a topic for discussion. The way I tend to look at things is that it is all there, it only has to be seen (become aware of). However, has Heraclitus said "Nature loves to hide", or as Daoism proclaims, "that which can be named is not the Dao." But, I am a bit more optimistic that we can see clues via observation in our awake and dream states.

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
Personally I see it only as a great mystery that defies comprehension, of which only its talents can be observed.


But that which sees through our eyes may be it. Something for discussion.

Pathfinder;84685 wrote:
Intelligence recognizes intelligence, and unfortunately I do not recognize any intelligence in those that suggest a castle in the midst of a jungle is natural, or that a universe of such complexity is an accidental mishap.


Sometimes it is so obvious, but it remains hidden. It reminds me of the old TV game show, Camouflage, where the game was to find the hidden drawing hidden among lots of lines. Kind of like Where's George?

Thanks for sharing your view of life with me.

Rich
0 Replies
 
Pathfinder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 02:57 pm
@Pathfinder,
I will gone for the weekend to a family gathering and we have hurricane bill bearing down on us for sunday. May be off for a few days.
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2009 05:02 pm
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;84770 wrote:
I will gone for the weekend to a family gathering and we have hurricane bill bearing down on us for sunday. May be off for a few days.


Keep well and enjoy your weekend - and hopefully the hurricane moves in a safe direction.

Rich
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Thought and Self-Awareness
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/21/2024 at 12:22:58