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Shared Mind, Shared Memories

 
 
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 10:29 pm
Many years of "exceptional" experiences have led me to a number of hypotheses about the human mind and our human capabilities. I have mentioned some of these in the Paradox of Time Travel thread in the Philosophy of Science forum and it has been suggested that I start a new thread focused on such exceptional experiences. I have a lifetime of personal experiences which I could share, and I am very interested in hearing about the experiences of others and how they have rationalized them. Here is a summary of some of my hypotheses.

1. There is a universal mind (faculty of consciousness and thought) of which each of us is part. Each of us has the innate ability to access, at will, any state of consciousness, any thought and any memory in our universal mind. (A realization of our universal mind comes in a state of consciousness without an object and without a subject.)

2. Each of us is an eternal energy form (soul?) which has chosen to inhabit a physical human being for as long as we choose or for as long as the physical human being can provide the electro-chemical functions required for it to live. (We have the capability of conscious interaction and non-verbal communication with eternal souls of our choice, at any time, whether or not they are curently inhabiting a physical human being.)

3. We are capable of taking our consciousness/awareness to any location and to any time in our physical world. (This can include awareness of the feelings as well as the visual and audible stimuli.)

4. The energy changes in our life forms are always influencing the energy changes in other entities. When done with intention (focus) we can influence chemical changes (eg, film fogging), influence the movement of physical objects (telekinesis), and influence the behavior of our fellow humans.

I look forward to your contributions to this thread.

mindlink
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Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 06:08 am
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:

1. There is a universal mind (faculty of consciousness and thought) of which each of us is part. Each of us has the innate ability to access, at will, any state of consciousness, any thought and any memory in our universal mind. (A realization of our universal mind comes in a state of consciousness without an object and without a subject.)


You brought up this idea of an innate ability to access any state of consciousness, any thought, and any memory in our universal mind, which suggests then that there are such things as innate ideas. The problem though, is children and the mentally handicap do not seem to have access to these ideas. That would also suggest that this ability is not innate either since these same people do not seem to have this access.

Founding arguments upon innate ideas is a rather difficult proposition. I wish you luck to explain why children and mentally handicap people do not seem to have access to the universal mind as you call it.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 08:17 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
You brought up this idea of an innate ability to access any state of consciousness, any thought, and any memory in our universal mind, which suggests then that there are such things as innate ideas. The problem though, is children and the mentally handicap do not seem to have access to these ideas. That would also suggest that this ability is not innate either since these same people do not seem to have this access.

Founding arguments upon innate ideas is a rather difficult proposition. I wish you luck to explain why children and mentally handicap people do not seem to have access to the universal mind as you call it.
I dont say by asking i agree with this notion but why should handicapped children not have this ability.I have found they can be very in tune with others moods or feelings, they can have almost magical attention to others aura.Is this even confined to humans can animals be almost telepathic with their owners.Certain controversial experiments have shown animals can be aware of the owners return or imminent return home.
My own experiences are confined to the close friends and family visiting me at the time of their death or very shortly afterwards.I have tried to excuse these experiences by logic but have to admit they puzzle me. It has been my one reason for not giving up completely in the possibility of an ethereal existance.whether this qualifies as example of shared mind i dont know...
manored
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 10:47 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
I dont say by asking i agree with this notion but why should handicapped children not have this ability.
It is funny how human beings have the tendence of interpretating the others as negative and discriminatory Smile He said "Handicaped people and children", not "handicaped children".

Theaetetus wrote:
You brought up this idea of an innate ability to access any state of consciousness, any thought, and any memory in our universal mind, which suggests then that there are such things as innate ideas. The problem though, is children and the mentally handicap do not seem to have access to these ideas. That would also suggest that this ability is not innate either since these same people do not seem to have this access.

Founding arguments upon innate ideas is a rather difficult proposition. I wish you luck to explain why children and mentally handicap people do not seem to have access to the universal mind as you call it.
I think that mindlink is saying that the "soul" has that ability, that is, everone has the potential to learn to do those things, just like everone with working legs has the potential to learn to walk.

I agree with most of what mindlink said, except 1. I dont believe there is a universal mind, but rather an infinite number of minds that can and do interfere and interact with each other. But they are not one, as I dont believe a mind can contemplate itself totally.

I dont have any experiences that can serve as definitive proof, but they are good enough for me anyway:

*I can make myself awake at any time I want by programming myself mentally to do so. Sometimes it doesnt works though, usually then I am too sleepy or didnt put much mental effort, and sometimes it works but strays 10 or 20 minutes off the target time.

*Sometimes I guess what people are going to say next with astonishing accuracy. Perhaps im just very clever though Smile

*Ever since I started having a positive attitude and view of life, things started going very well for me. It might be because a positive attitude makes you see the world with "nicer eyes", but anyway it doesnt really matters because it works Smile

*Then I put special mind focus and concentration into something I hardly ever fail.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 12:14 pm
@mindlink,
A universal mind would imply innate ideas. If we all have access, assuming it exists, then we all have a set of ideas to draw from. Evidence suggests though that there is no innate ideas because children and mentally handicapped people do not seem to share many of these ideas that others have.

Number three suggests that we know of places we have never been. With television, pictures, and other media to implant ideas into our heads of places and times we have never seen or experienced, I doubt that this is an ability to visit these locations, rather our brains ability to piece together memories of images.

Number two is pure speculation. The idea of eternal energy, which many would call the soul, is wishful thinking or pure faith. It cannot be known from experience.

Number four is pretty much confirmed by quantum mechanics. The act of perceiving alters perceptions. We influence the movement of physical objects, but with such a small minute force that it has relatively no effect. We influence the behaviors of others with our interactions with them.

I would say that all four conclusions are possible, but unlikely considering pure empirical evidence. From our experience, none of the conclusions can be derived.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 12:44 pm
@Theaetetus,
I wonder how much of this is a leap of faith or self delusion . Im sorry i cant accept these claims or even acknowledge the possibility without some shred of evidence and this is from someone who has had weird experiences themselves..If i had or i have had experiences i could relay the experience but i cant demand people accept them as facts.
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 02:48 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
I wonder how much of this is a leap of faith or self delusion . Im sorry i cant accept these claims or even acknowledge the possibility without some shred of evidence and this is from someone who has had weird experiences themselves..If i had or i have had experiences i could relay the experience but i cant demand people accept them as facts.


That is exactly my point. The OP's conclusions cannot be derived from empirical evidence. Our experience does not suggest any of them are true.
0 Replies
 
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 03:20 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
You brought up this idea of an innate ability to access any state of consciousness, any thought, and any memory in our universal mind, which suggests then that there are such things as innate ideas. The problem though, is children and the mentally handicap do not seem to have access to these ideas. That would also suggest that this ability is not innate either since these same people do not seem to have this access.

Founding arguments upon innate ideas is a rather difficult proposition. I wish you luck to explain why children and mentally handicap people do not seem to have access to the universal mind as you call it.


I have been having "exceptional experiences" since I was a babe in arms, before I learned to understand any spoken language. I have known many other children, including my own six children, who have given evidence of having this ability, without anybody teaching it to them. This has led me to the conclusion that the ability is innate.

Every one of the stated hypotheses is based on my own life experiences.

What evidence do you have that children and the mentally handicapped do not have this ability?

mindlink
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 04:01 pm
@mindlink,
The Oxford English Dictionary of Current English defines "hypothesis: a proposed explanation of something made on the basis of limited evidence, used as a starting point for further investigation."

I am certainly not trying to suggest that my hypotheses are "truth". I am well aware that the only thing that is true to anyone is that which they have personally experienced. My personal experiences are certainly true to me, but I have no desire to try to prove them to anybody -- that would be an impossibility. My purpose in stating these hypotheses here is to stimulate further investigation and to motivate other people to relate experiences which may reinforce or supplement my own.

If there is interest, I will be happy to give examples of my experiences which led to an hypothesis about which you have questions, but such a narrative would just be background information and would definitely not constitute an argument or proof, even when there has been verification of the events.

I can understand people's reluctance to consider the veracity of phenomena which appear to contradict deeply conditioned belief systems. I was brought up in a loving and respectful middle-class family, educated, trained and experienced in applied science, and commissioned as an officer and airplane pilot in a no-nonsense military force. My exceptional experiences have caused significant and traumatic revisions to my tradition-based belief systems. From my current perspectives of peace, fulfillment and satisfaction, I think that the traumas were worth it.

mindlink
manored
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 06:14 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
A universal mind would imply innate ideas. If we all have access, assuming it exists, then we all have a set of ideas to draw from. Evidence suggests though that there is no innate ideas because children and mentally handicapped people do not seem to share many of these ideas that others have.
The existence of a universal mind everone would be connected to wouldnt necessarly mean everone would have equal levels and types of acesss to it, otherwise we would just all be equal.

xris wrote:
I wonder how much of this is a leap of faith or self delusion . Im sorry i cant accept these claims or even acknowledge the possibility without some shred of evidence and this is from someone who has had weird experiences themselves..If i had or i have had experiences i could relay the experience but i cant demand people accept them as facts.
Its not something that can really be proved, because its a serie of subjective experiences: for example, if you see a randow number generator that you know that is not ridged start giving out the same number ever time after someone starts putting mental effort towards that, no matter for how long this keept up one could always claim in the end it was a defect or a huge coincidence.

One of the most anoying, or maybe most impressive, things about reality is that it seens possible to see it from multiple sides making the same levels of sense Smile
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 06:32 pm
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:
The Oxford English Dictionary of Current English defines "hypothesis: a proposed explanation of something made on the basis of limited evidence, used as a starting point for further investigation."

I am certainly not trying to suggest that my hypotheses are "truth". I am well aware that the only thing that is true to anyone is that which they have personally experienced. My personal experiences are certainly true to me, but I have no desire to try to prove them to anybody -- that would be an impossibility. My purpose in stating these hypotheses here is to stimulate further investigation and to motivate other people to relate experiences which may reinforce or supplement my own.

If there is interest, I will be happy to give examples of my experiences which led to an hypothesis about which you have questions, but such a narrative would just be background information and would definitely not constitute an argument or proof, even when there has been verification of the events.

I can understand people's reluctance to consider the veracity of phenomena which appear to contradict deeply conditioned belief systems. I was brought up in a loving and respectful middle-class family, educated, trained and experienced in applied science, and commissioned as an officer and airplane pilot in a no-nonsense military force. My exceptional experiences have caused significant and traumatic revisions to my tradition-based belief systems. From my current perspectives of peace, fulfillment and satisfaction, I think that the traumas were worth it.

mindlink


I am kind of playing devil's advocate in this thread. I do not necessarily disagree with your conclusions. I have suffered a serious head injury so I have odd beliefs that others do not hold, but I try to understand phenomena from a strictly empirical perspective for this reason. I understand how these conclusions are subjectively true for you (I have had many friends over the years with nearly similar conclusions, but the subjects either experienced them due to psychedelic drugs or traumatic injury), but I am trying search for answers to ultimate questions from empirical experience due to my subjective bias caused by either drug induced or traumatic experience.
0 Replies
 
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 07:46 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
You brought up this idea of an innate ability to access any state of consciousness, any thought, and any memory in our universal mind, which suggests then that there are such things as innate ideas. The problem though, is children and the mentally handicap do not seem to have access to these ideas. That would also suggest that this ability is not innate either since these same people do not seem to have this access.

Founding arguments upon innate ideas is a rather difficult proposition. I wish you luck to explain why children and mentally handicap people do not seem to have access to the universal mind as you call it.
Because they are fortunate, in a sense.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 03:52 am
@Elmud,
All i can say is that in the past when such claims have been made under scrutiny they are very hard to prove.Its a controversial subject and for the individual his own belief is paramount but for the observer it can be difficult to accept.I wont dismiss it because of my own experiences but i would need proof to enter into theorising about why certain people have this gift and not others.
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 08:39 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
All i can say is that in the past when such claims have been made under scrutiny they are very hard to prove.Its a controversial subject and for the individual his own belief is paramount but for the observer it can be difficult to accept.I wont dismiss it because of my own experiences but i would need proof to enter into theorising about why certain people have this gift and not others.


Scientific proof requires that an event must be able to be duplicated objectively under controlled conditions, with the same inputs resulting in the same outputs. Personal experiences can never meet these criteria. Now the theories of Quantum Physics suggest that NO experience can meet these criteria, since we cannot observe an event without affecting its result. Every event becomes a personal experience.

I was fortunate that my scientific education included the teaching that there is no such thing as a scientific fact. There are only theories, opinions and generalizations. I was taught to make use of whatever theories served my purposes, but to always keep my mind open to new and different theories which may better serve my purposes.

"Why do certain people have this gift and not others?" This is the question which I have been asking all of my life. Why me? Many of my exceptional experiences were not wanted and were not asked for. At the time, they felt like perfectly normal and natural experiences, but the reaction of others made me realize that they were exceptional experiences which set me apart from my friends and colleagues and made me look like some kind of weirdo in their eyes. I couldn't stop the experiences from happening and, actually, I didn't want to. Each of them gave me a deeper and more profound understanding of reality and gave me feelings of happiness, bliss and a loving belonging to life.

I like to talk about my exceptional experiences in potentially receptive environments because this often leads me to people who have had similar experiences, which add to my understanding of reality. Also, when some people see a person like me talking about such things, it helps to make it OK for them to consider the possibility of such things and to open up for those people the wonderful world which is available to them, with some changes in attitude and belief.

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 09:15 am
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:
Scientific proof requires that an event must be able to be duplicated objectively under controlled conditions, with the same inputs resulting in the same outputs. Personal experiences can never meet these criteria. Now the theories of Quantum Physics suggest that NO experience can meet these criteria, since we cannot observe an event without affecting its result. Every event becomes a personal experience.

I was fortunate that my scientific education included the teaching that there is no such thing as a scientific fact. There are only theories, opinions and generalizations. I was taught to make use of whatever theories served my purposes, but to always keep my mind open to new and different theories which may better serve my purposes.

"Why do certain people have this gift and not others?" This is the question which I have been asking all of my life. Why me? Many of my exceptional experiences were not wanted and were not asked for. At the time, they felt like perfectly normal and natural experiences, but the reaction of others made me realize that they were exceptional experiences which set me apart from my friends and colleagues and made me look like some kind of weirdo in their eyes. I couldn't stop the experiences from happening and, actually, I didn't want to. Each of them gave me a deeper and more profound understanding of reality and gave me feelings of happiness, bliss and a loving belonging to life.

I like to talk about my exceptional experiences in potentially receptive environments because this often leads me to people who have had similar experiences, which add to my understanding of reality. Also, when some people see a person like me talking about such things, it helps to make it OK for them to consider the possibility of such things and to open up for those people the wonderful world which is available to them, with some changes in attitude and belief.

mindlink
There is a difference between scientific facts that are not proven but are accepted as being the most rational explanation and what you are proposing.I think i have told you i have had experiences that defy my logic but i still keep an open mind on the cause of them.I don't know exactly what experiences you have had that others have witnessed, it would be a lot clearer to me if you could be more explicit.I dreamt the lottery numbers but did not take the dream seriously enough to my cost.My family know because i showed them the numbers..That type of evidence if the reader believes i am being honest can stimulate debate.
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 11:17 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
There is a difference between scientific facts that are not proven but are accepted as being the most rational explanation and what you are proposing.I think i have told you i have had experiences that defy my logic but i still keep an open mind on the cause of them.I don't know exactly what experiences you have had that others have witnessed, it would be a lot clearer to me if you could be more explicit.I dreamt the lottery numbers but did not take the dream seriously enough to my cost.My family know because i showed them the numbers..That type of evidence if the reader believes i am being honest can stimulate debate.


On our first trip together to Great Britain, my wife Barbara and I rented a car and, with the help of an old British Automobile Association guide book loaned to us by a friend at work, we set out to explore some of the historical treasures of Great Britain. One cool, grey, drizzly morning we were driving up a narrow country road near the village of Avebury and noticed two rows of large standing stones going up the pasture parallel to the road. Curious, we parked the car and went through a cattle gate which was at the bottom of the two rows of stones and which had a small plaque, telling us how these ancient standing stones had been re-erected as they had been many centuries before.

Barbara went to the first stone at the bottom of the first row and I walked over to the first stone at the bottom of the second row. As I walked around the stone, admiring its ridges and crevices, I got in my mind an image of a young man dressed in warrior's garb. I also got the feeling that this was a rather sickly young man, who was distressed because he couldn't be like his renowned and respected warrior father. Fascinated with the images and feelings I was experiencing, I walked over to Barbara to tell her about them, but Barbara was obviously in a quiet, meditative mood so I waited patiently until she was ready to talk with me. The stone that Barbara had chosen was shaped like a slightly cupped hand reaching out of the earth. I got an image of a gentle older lady, and the wonderful feeling of a grandmother's love. Without thinking, I exclaimed, "Wow, what a beatifully gentle lady!" Startled, Barbara asked why I had said that. When I told her about the image and feelings I was experiencing, she revealed that she was experiencing a similar image and set of feelings.

Then Barbara and I walked together slowly, from stone to stone, zigzagging back and forth between the two rows, sharing with each other the images and feelings which we experienced as we approached and walked around each of the stones. We discovered that each stone represented a very distinctive personality and that the row of stones next to the country road contained all female personalitieis and the row furthest from the road contained all male personalities. But we weren't just observing the images and feelings about these personalities, we were actually interacting with these people, wordlessly asking them questions as they wordlessly welcomed us as if we were long-absent members of their community. We could "see" the homes they lived in, the clothes they wore, and the beautiful, tall-treed forest which surrounded their small village. We met the father of the sickly young man I had met at the first stone, and we met a hard-working housewife and her farmer/hunter/part-time-warrior husband. We met many people, all distinct personalities and all respectfully welcoming to us.

Although the images and feelings which Barbara and I were experiencing were similar, our interpretation of them was sometimes quite different. As we approached one stone, I remarked on the image and feelings I got about a loving father of many children. Barbara interpreted the image and feelings she was receiving as being of a priest with a great love for his parishioners. As we approached another stone, I said that this was a very regal lady, and Barbara said that this was a high priestess. Although there were many more stones in the two rows past this High Priestess stone, this was far as we went. For the High Priestess personality greeted us with imperious dignity,as though graciously granting us an audience and, after a brief exchange of formalities, told us that we knew what we had to do and instructed us to get on with it. I felt a bit snubbed and, as we slowly walked back down the hill between the two rows of stones, I tried to recapture the camaraderie which we had experienced with the stones on our walk up the hill. But the other personalities had become distant and, although still respectful, urged us to follow the directive of the High Priestess and get on with our mission. So we left the field, got in our car and drove on.

At no time during our visit with the personalities, who were revealed to us as we walked among the stones, did we feel that we were experiencing anything abnormal or unusual. To us at the time, it was a perfectly normal day with normal, common-place events. We never lost awareness of the cool, damp weather and the treeless sheep pasture we were walking through, as we "saw" the heavy forest surrounding the community, and "saw" the light, loose clothing the people wore in the warm climate in which they lived. We had a tape recorder in the car but did not consider the experience to be significant enough to record anything about it, and that night I just wrote in my diary that today we had met some interesting people who had lived several thousand years ago. It wasn't until a week or so later, when we happened to mention our Avebury morning to some acquaintances, that their reaction to our story made us aware that perhaps it had been an exceptional experience. Since Barbara and I had corroborated each other, my scientific curiosity kicked in and I wanted to find out as much as I could about the Avebury stones and about other "sacred" stones in Great Britain. I bought a number of books on the subject and found that William Shakespeare had reportedly commented on the Avebury stones that, "These are not stones. These are people." In a castle in Northern Scotland, we found a description of the climate and environment of Great Britain in ancient days and that description coincided with the warm weather and heavily-wooded environment we had experienced with our "acquaintances" that morning in Avebury. Our reseach indicated that the people we met that day may have lived about 4,000 to 5,000 years ago, long before the time of the Druids, who are credited with erecting such stones. We got an impression that the stones may not have originally come from around Avebury, but from other, perhaps nearby, communities.

My research revealed that there are many "sacred" stones in Great Britain, some of them arranged in circles, some in rows like the ones near Avebury, some stacked to form small huts, and some round ones, about the size of a human head, stacked in piles with a tunnel going into the centre of the pile, and some placed under the seats of the thrones of ruling nobility. The experiences of Barbara and me suggested to us that the people of ancient times were aware of the power of such stones to provide links to memories about their forebears and had significant people in their communities keep such a stone close by them during their life, perhaps under where they slept, so that later generations could benefit from their wisdom and knowledge. Perhaps this practice was the origin of our modern practice of placing a headstone at the head of somebody's grave. Although, unfortunately, we neglect to have the person store in the headstone, before they die, a link to the person's personality and memories.

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 01:17 pm
@mindlink,
I fortunately live in an area scattered with ancient stones and the past is very close to me.The reason i love Cornwall is it still has the past in its scenery and in the few places that catch the breath of times past.When approaching any ancient sacred place i feel their significance and kinship with those who left them.I assumed it was because i had ancient Celt blood running in my veins but in all honesty it is the tangible contact you appear to have when entering into these sacred places.I have not been so fortunate as you and your wife but i for one believe your sincerity and knowing these stones i can believe your accounts..I detested the day that by necessity Stonehenge was forbidden for the likes of us to roam among its ancient stones.thanks again for your bravery in telling us this moving account of your experience..Strange as it may seem i strangely worship my holly tree and still listen for pans pipes in a cool summer evening. xris
mindlink
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 02:22 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
I fortunately live in an area scattered with ancient stones and the past is very close to me.The reason i love Cornwall is it still has the past in its scenery and in the few places that catch the breath of times past.When approaching any ancient sacred place i feel their significance and kinship with those who left them.I assumed it was because i had ancient Celt blood running in my veins but in all honesty it is the tangible contact you appear to have when entering into these sacred places.I have not been so fortunate as you and your wife but i for one believe your sincerity and knowing these stones i can believe your accounts..I detested the day that by necessity Stonehenge was forbidden for the likes of us to roam among its ancient stones.thanks again for your bravery in telling us this moving account of your experience..Strange as it may seem i strangely worship my holly tree and still listen for pans pipes in a cool summer evening. xris


I envy you your location. I love the antiquity of Great Britain.

On a business trip once, I was invited to a medieval dinner in a castle in Wales. Standing on a hill looking down on the castle, I noted that one part of the castle looked different than the other parts. My host told me that the different looking part was called the "new castle". It was built in the 1400's. The "new castle" was built before the Americas were even discovered.

mindlink
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 02:39 pm
@mindlink,
mindlink wrote:
I envy you your location. I love the antiquity of Great Britain.

On a business trip once, I was invited to a medieval dinner in a castle in Wales. Standing on a hill looking down on the castle, I noted that one part of the castle looked different than the other parts. My host told me that the different looking part was called the "new castle". It was built in the 1400's. The "new castle" was built before the Americas were even discovered.

mindlink
The trouble is the modern world is advancing even into our most secret places.I love visiting our quiet out of the way places that have not changed since the dawn of history.What we dont have is those big horizons the wilderness, i envy you those places.
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 03:36 pm
@mindlink,
Your experience with the mind recording stones is quite interesting mindlink.I wonder if the ancient people knew things we have forgotten.
0 Replies
 
 

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