words reflecting on other words

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Emily Levines' act

Emily Levine's theory of everything | Video on TED.com

brings this question around again for me

during her bit she mentions an ad listing "White trash compactor for sale".

how is that that we establish which of the words following it, is the one a descriptor is attached to ? spoken vs. written word

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@memester,

memester;111251 wrote:

Emily Levines' act

Emily Levine's theory of everything | Video on TED.com

brings this question around again for me

during her bit she mentions an ad listing "White trash compactor for sale".

how is that that we establish which of the words following it, is the one a descriptor is attached to ? spoken vs. written word

If, by any chance, you are asking whether "white" qualifies just "trash", or whether it qualifies, "trash compactor", the answer is, we cannot tell, and that is why, "white trash compacter" is ambiguous. In fact the answer is indeterminate, since there are no disambiguating terms. But of course, in a normal context, we would know that "white" qualifies "trash compactor". Since it is unlikely that there are compactor that compact white trash.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy;111272 wrote:

If, by any chance, you are asking whether "white" qualifies just "trash", or whether it qualifies, "trash compactor", the answer is, we cannot tell, and that is why, "white trash compacter" is ambiguous. In fact the answer is indeterminate, since there are no disambiguating terms. But of course, in a normal context, we would know that "white" qualifies "trash compactor". Since it is unlikely that there are compactor that compact white trash.

In spoken word, I guess it's where the empahasis, or a slight pause, is put.

I written from, cannot commas and hyphens make the distinction ? Then I find it confusing sometimes, about how many words in a string need to hyphenated and where not to place a hyphen Smile

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@memester,

memester;111281 wrote:

In spoken word, I guess it's where the empahasis, or a slight pause, is put.

I written from, cannot commas and hyphens make the distinction ? Then I find it confusing sometimes, about how many words in a string need to hyphenated and where not to place a hyphen

I think we routinely seek out a speaker's frame of reference and attach ourselves to it. Otherwise we couldn't respond to even the simplest sentence because of seeing the multitude of possible meanings.

For some sort of formal paper, a book defining the norms of written English is required. Otherwise, we can just look at our own writing objectively... as if we're the reader.

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@memester,

memester;111281 wrote:

In spoken word, I guess it's where the empahasis, or a slight pause, is put.

I written from, cannot commas and hyphens make the distinction ? Then I find it confusing sometimes, about how many words in a string need to hyphenated and where not to place a hyphen

Sure, we disambiguate with punctuation, with word-order, with what linguists all "intonation contours" (voice, and pauses, etc.) And the extra-linguistic situation also disambiguates. There aren't any compactors for people. I hope.

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@kennethamy,

OK, here is one for fun: using availble notations , playing at disambiguating this to mean the other person is right, and is usually right, or is right this time, but is usually wrong.

"You're right and I'm wrong as you usually are."

A/ You're right and I'm wrong, as you usually are.

B/ You're right, and I'm wrong as you usually are.

C/ You're right, and I'm wrong, as you usually are.

D/ You're right, and I'm wrong - as you usually are.

E/ Youre right - and I'm wrong, as you usually are.

F/ You're right - and I'm wrong - as you usually are.

I left some out Smile

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@memester,

memester;111291 wrote:

OK, here is one for fun: using availble notations , disambiguate this to mean the other person is right, and is usually right, or is right this time, but is usually wrong.

"You're right and I'm wrong as you usually are."

"You're right as you usually are, and I'm wrong".

or,

"You're right (and) as you usually are, I'm wrong".

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;111293 wrote:

"You're right as you usually are, and I'm wrong".

or,

"You're right (and) as you usually are, I'm wrong".

I guess the object is to write it well, but leave the person with "a feeling" that something just went on. Originally I heard it as spoken word.

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@memester,

slightly off topic but i just wanted to say thanks memester for the emily levine link. I had never heard of her and i really like her concept of being a 'trickster' Smile

that fine balance required to create the possibility of crossing boundaries and discoverying new ways of seeing and being with the world. Intelligent, insightful and funny. I felt that i had come across someone who i could really identify with. i will try and follow up on more of her work and am really looking forward to it.

thanks again

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@memester,

memester;111251 wrote:

Emily Levines' act

Emily Levine's theory of everything | Video on TED.com

brings this question around again for me

during her bit she mentions an ad listing "White trash compactor for sale".

how is that that we establish which of the words following it, is the one a descriptor is attached to ? spoken vs. written word

Ask me; I was once an English major, and I should know, and I don't...I do know that many languages are different from our own, so to try to learn Latin, Greek, or Romance languages is like thinking in a mirror...Everything is opposite...Thank God so many of them know English or communication would be impossible, at least for me...

Do notice, that the woman used- form -correctly... And if she doesn't like objectivism, she is my friend...

---------- Post added 12-14-2009 at 05:35 PM ----------

pagan;111310 wrote:

slightly off topic but i just wanted to say thanks memester for the emily levine link. I had never heard of her and i really like her concept of being a 'trickster' that fine balance required to create the possibility of crossing boundaries and discoverying new ways of seeing and being with the world. Intelligent, insightful and funny. I felt that i had come across someone who i could really identify with. i will try and follow up on more of her work and am really looking forward to it.

thanks again

Do you get trickster as a primitive hero phase...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Quote:

fido - Do you get trickster as a primitive hero phase...

hi

uh well i have only just come across it Smile

So i am not sure what 'primitive hero phase' means in this context. As a pagan a trickster is often felt as a spirit being that delights in intervention by crossing the boundaries between realms, but usually without malicious intent.

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@memester,

memester;111291 wrote:

OK, here is one for fun: using availble notations , playing at disambiguating this to mean the other person is right, and is usually right, or is right this time, but is usually wrong.

A teacher teaching English as a foreign language asks students to punctuate the following sentence:

Woman without her man is nothing.

A male student tries first and writes:

Woman, without her man, is nothing.

A female student goes next and writes:

Woman: without her, man is nothing.

It could well be that someone came up with a device for squashing trailer homes. If so, the sentence as stated couldn't be made any clearer without becoming awkward or clumsy (e.g. Compactor of white trash for sale). However "White trash-compactor for sale" is unambiguous and accords well with English manners of written language. The question is, which benefit of doubt do we bestow upon the advertiser: literate and efficient homocidal racist or innocent numbskull?

Bearing in mind that if a German posted a classified ad saying (in German) 'Seeking someone for dinner and interesting conversation', we know from experience we cannot assume he means in that chronological order.

Bones

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