Whoever
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 10:57 am
@hammersklavier,
Yes, we are all products of our time. But to say this is quite different from saying that Buddhism arose as as a reaction to political undercurrents in Hinduism.

hammersklavier wrote:
This argument is inductive. If there's one case where what creates and maintains the world (cosmology) and what underpins it (metaphysics) is different, then this argument fails. So, the question becomes: is your assertion true? Or is mine?

This is a misunderstanding. I only suggested that you should not make asumptions. The point is not whether you or I think the assumption is true or false. I certainly wasn't suggesting you should replace your assumption with one of mine.

Quote:
...I am afraid, Whoever, you are right. There is not a single case I could find where that which creates and maintains the universe is indeed significantly different than that which underpins the universe. Thus, in a religious context, it does indeed seem that cosmology and metaphysics ought to be unified.

I think this depends on how the two words are defined. I can see no point in distinguishing between the two, but it may be useful to do so in some contexts. I can't even distinguish between metaphysics and fundamental physics.

Quote:
However, Whoever, your assertion that there is an objective, empirically discoverable system of ethics via the scientific method is highly suspicious. Ethics is inherent within us and the anthropological principle of cultural relevance (that which is right to one culture may not necessarily be right to another) and that rightness is relative seems to eliminate absolute ethics from scientific ken. It is instead the responsibility of us philosophers to discern true ethics.

Yes, this is the current 'scientific' view, and if we treat ethics as strictly relative this is the view we hold. But it's perfectly possible that it's a false view. (Indeed, I think I can prove that it is. That essay was the beginning of my attempted proof). If it turns out to be a false view this would not be the end of science.

I'd suggest that the common cosmological assumptions made by scientists are not what defines science, and that anyone who claims that the physics has no bearing on ethics has abandoned the scientific method for philosophical speculation.
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 12:28 pm
@Whoever,
just to clarify

Panentheism (from Greekpantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe. [1]
In panentheism, God is not exactly viewed as the creator or demiurge but the eternal animating force behind the universe, with the universe as nothing more than the manifest part of God. The cosmos exists within God, who in turn "pervades" or is "in" the cosmos. While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and that the universe is contained within God. [2] Panentheism holds that God is the "supreme affect and effect" of the universe.[citation needed]
hammersklavier
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 02:16 pm
@Whoever,
Whoever wrote:
Yes, we are all products of our time. But to say this is quite different from saying that Buddhism arose as as a reaction to political undercurrents in Hinduism.


This is a misunderstanding. I only suggested that you should not make asumptions. The point is not whether you or I think the assumption is true or false. I certainly wasn't suggesting you should replace your assumption with one of mine.


I think this depends on how the two words are defined. I can see no point in distinguishing between the two, but it may be useful to do so in some contexts. I can't even distinguish between metaphysics and fundamental physics.


Yes, this is the current 'scientific' view, and if we treat ethics as strictly relative this is the view we hold. But it's perfectly possible that it's a false view. (Indeed, I think I can prove that it is. That essay was the beginning of my attempted proof). If it turns out to be a false view this would not be the end of science.

I'd suggest that the common cosmological assumptions made by scientists are not what defines science, and that anyone who claims that the physics has no bearing on ethics has abandoned the scientific method for philosophical speculation.

Wow. Critiquing my saying you're right. That's...um...something...:whistling:
0 Replies
 
Whoever
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 02:43 pm
@Dichanthelium,
Well, we see this from different angles. I wasn't suggesting that my view was right and so didn't want to draw attention to your conclusion. I was suggesting that your view was an assumption. Iow, I wasn't trying to be right but rigorous. I'm not even sure I'm right now, especially since I didn't entirely agree with your characterisation of certain religions.

But I did notice what you said and appreciated it, since not many people are happy to turn around and say you're right to their opponent in the middle of a disagreement. I expect our views are quite similar underneath the muddle of language.
0 Replies
 
Dichanthelium
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Feb, 2009 05:35 pm
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
just to clarify

Panentheism (from Greekpantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.


Of course we always come back to the question of why anyone would posit "GOD" anyway. Panentheism may just be a way of saying, "This mysterious and incomprehensible totality, whatever it may be and whatever qualities may arise from it, I call it "God." The next person may just as well say, I call it "Whatever exists."

Are they both referring to the same thing? What if they both have the same attitude toward it (reverence, awe, admiration, for example)? Does it really matter whether they call it by some name?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Panentheism
  3. » Page 3
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 12/23/2024 at 12:48:40