The IQ of interesting people (A fun thread)

Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 12:31 pm
BUT Hitler was useless, he did not know anything about strategic interests in war or how it is more important to know when to retreat rather than when to advance.He had might on his side and commanders second to none, but military intelligence, absolutely zero.
Dave Allen
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 01:58 pm
Zetetic11235;65841 wrote:
Not a hoax, unless the new york times circa the early 1900's was worthless and some highly intelligent person has decided to give up his rights to his work so that he can say that Sidis wrote them.

I have no doubt Sidis existed, or that he was a terrific prodigy. I'm not disputing his putative IQ score.

I do think it is pure fantasy to ascribe 200 languages to him. Maybe he could say hello in 200 languages - but knowing 200, and being able to learn a new language within 24 hours - no - don't believe it. Total recall of everything he read? No, I think that's clearly ficticious.

I believe he was able to do some of the things on your list, but not all of them, and the fact that the last point seems to suggest that two fictional characters wrote, or were used as references for, the list:
Again, refer Sam Rosenberg's conjectures. Perhaps there is even more than Sam decrypted. Billy: quanton (Hyde, Jekyll).

Makes me think someone might be having a bit of a laugh here.

Sidis: Brilliant, yes, superhuman, no.

As for the Nazis, yes I am sure some of them were very adroit and mentally agile - as you say a bit of intelligence is needed to organise armies and societies, and I don't think immorality need be associated with stupidity.

However, I still think that simply ascribing high IQ scores to top Nazis is a little bit dodgy unless you can actually back it up with some facts about how that intelligence was gathered.

And as I've pointed out, the story Alan provides about how the scores were collected is clearly absolute rubbish - Hitler being dead at the time and so on...

I mean, if someone came up to you in the street and said "clever bunch those top Nazis, all of them had high IQ scores" and you said "how do you know that" and he said "they all took IQ tests shortly before being tried and executed for warcrimes" would you not reckon they were a bit crackers?

BUT Hitler was useless, he did not know anything about strategic interests in war or how it is more important to know when to retreat rather than when to advance.He had might on his side and commanders second to none, but military intelligence, absolutely zero.

The soviets ultimately proved mightier, and won through sledgehammer tactics. This is despite the fact that the initial size of the Red army and the superiority of their tanks meant that, had he adopted blitzkreig Stalin could have given his enemies a thorough drubbing. Had Stalin not purged the Red Army of officers in the lead up to war he might have easily beaten back Hitler. If anyone benefitted from might (in terms of manpower, territory, war machines and style) it was Stalin.

Hitler did make some blunders, such as forcing Rommel to commit suicide, or helping Mussolini conquer Yugoslavia in favour to a summer offensive against the USSR.

However, compared to the blunders committed by the British, French, China, US and USSR during their various wartime debuts - Hitler fought a very efficient and innovative set of campaigns. The allies actually tended to screw up until they learned to fight like the Germans.

So I don't think saying he was a military idiot is justified. In the end he proved overconfident and wasteful - probably as a consequence of nervous infirmity and the fact that he had turned his sociopathy on to his own people.
Reply Sun 31 May, 2009 03:22 pm
@Dave Allen,
Sorry but Hitler chose too many fronts.He could have secured the british defeat before entering Russia and he should have secured the oil fields.He should never have exposed his troops to a Russian winter, ill prepared and not clothed for such an exploit.He constantly ignored his commanders while Churchill let his fight the war.
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 02:08 am
Hitler was not a brilliant strategist, he was a brilliant speaker and personality. He was animated, charismatic and manipulative. Unfortunately he was also insane.

Dave Allen, I don't know if Sidis could learn a language in a day, however he certainly could learn one in no more than half a year and he knew many odd and difficult to pick up languages such as the native American languages he knew. He was capable of coming up with his own sort of Esperanto-esq language when he was eight, and language seems to have a bit of a compound learning curve, you learn latin and you can learn french or italian easier.

It was admitted that what is meant by "He could learn a whole language in a day" is that he could learn the basic conversational aspects of the language to a reasonable level of proficiency within a day, not that he could master a language in a day.

However, if you have heard of Daniel Tammet(a high functioning man with extreme linguistic and mathematical savantism), it seems reasonable to allow for the possibility of Sidis being fluent in absurdly many languages(maybe over 100) and picking each of them up in a matter of weeks.
0 Replies
Alan McDougall
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 04:54 am
xris;65865 wrote:
Sorry but Hitler chose too many fronts.He could have secured the british defeat before entering Russia and he should have secured the oil fields.He should never have exposed his troops to a Russian winter, ill prepared and not clothed for such an exploit.He constantly ignored his commanders while Churchill let his fight the war.

xris all the IQs of dead people were estimates, I am perplexed why some guys take the whole thread so seriously.

I said it was just for fun guys, Hitler tried to run the whole war on his own and appeared to do a reasonable job for a short time
Dave Allen
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 06:38 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;65950 wrote:
xris all the IQs of dead people were estimates, I am perplexed why some guys take the whole thread so seriously.

Why share it at all if you're going to become all defensive and refuse to answer questions when your post is challenged?
Alan McDougall
Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 08:09 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;65968 wrote:
Why share it at all if you're going to become all defensive and refuse to answer questions when your post is challenged?

Insult me politely :perplexed:

I think it might be interesting to compare greatness or influence to estimated IQs

People off history
190 - Ludwig Wittgenstein http://www.torrentdownloads.net/torrent/371352/The+100+-+Ranking+of+Most+Influential+People+in+History+-+Michael+Hart+Citadel+Press+1992+pdf

Download The 100 - Ranking of Most Influential People in History - Michael Hart Citadel Press 1992 pdf torrents at TorrentDownloads.Net, The 100 - Ranking of Most Influential People in History - Michael Hart Citadel Press 1992 pdf free torrent Download from our bittorrent database.

Torrent Description

1 Muhammad Islam Prophet of Islam (I disagree my no 2)
2 Isaac Newton Anglican (I disagree my number 3)
3 Jesus Christ Christianity founder of Christianity (I disagree my no 1)
4 Buddha Buddhism founder of Buddhism
5 Confucius Confucianism founder of Confucianism
6 St. Paul Christianity proselytizer of Christianity
7 Ts'ai Lun Chinese inventor of paper
8 Johann Gutenberg Catholic developed movable type;
9 Christopher Columbus Catholic explorer; led Europe to Americas
10 Albert Einstein Jewish physicist;
11 Louis Pasteur Catholic scientist; pasteurization
12 Galileo Galilei Catholic astronomer;
13 Aristotle Platonism / Greek philosophy Greek philosopher
14 Euclid Platonism / Greek philosophy mathematician; Euclidian geometry
15 Moses Judaism major prophet of Judaism
16 Charles Darwin Anglican (nominal); Unitarian biologist; described Darwinian evolution, which had theological impact on many religions
17 Shih Huang Ti Chinese traditional religion Chinese emperor
18 Augustus Caesar Roman state paganism ruler
19 Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic (priest) astronomer; taught heliocentricity
20 Antoine Laurent Lavoisier Catholic father of modern chemistry; philosopher; economist
21 Constantine the Great Roman state paganism; Christianity Roman emperor who completely legalized Christianity, leading to its status as state religion. Convened the First Council of Nicaea that produced the Nicene Creed, which rejected Arianism (one of two major strains of Christian thought) and established Athanasianism (Trinitarianism, the other strain) as "official doctrine."
22 James Watt Presbyterian (lapsed) developed steam engine
23 Michael Faraday Sandemanian physicist; chemist; discovery of magneto-electricity
24 James Clerk Maxwell Presbyterian; Anglican; Baptist physicist; electromagnetic spectrum
25 Martin Luther Catholic; Lutheran founder of Protestantism and Lutheranism
26 George Washington Episcopalian first president of United States
27 Karl Marx Jewish; Lutheran;
Atheist; Marxism/Communism founder of Marxism, Marxist Communism
28 Orville and Wilbur Wright United Brethren inventors of airplane
29 Genghis Khan Mongolian shamanism Mongol conqueror
30 Adam Smith Liberal Protestant economist; philosopher; expositor of capitalism; author: The Theory of Moral Sentiments
31 Edward de Vere
a.k.a. William Shakespeare Catholic; Anglican literature; also wrote 6 volumes about philosophy and religion
32 John Dalton Quaker chemist; physicist; atomic theory; law of partial pressures (Dalton's law)
33 Alexander the Great Greek state paganism conqueror
34 Napoleon Bonaparte Catholic (nominal) French conqueror
35 Thomas Edison Congregationalist; agnostic inventor of light bulb, phonograph, etc.
36 Antony van Leeuwenhoek Dutch Reformed microscopes; studied microscopic life
37 William T.G. Morton ?? pioneer in anesthesiology
38 Guglielmo Marconi Catholic and Anglican inventor of radio
39 Adolf Hitler Nazism; born/raised in, but rejected Catholicism conqueror; led Axis Powers in WWII
40 Plato Platonism / Greek philosophy founder of Platonism
41 Oliver Cromwell Puritan (Protestant) British political and military leader
42 Alexander Graham Bell Unitarian/Universalist inventor of telephone *
43 Alexander Fleming Catholic penicillin; advances in bacteriology, immunology and chemotherapy
44 John Locke raised Puritan (Anglican);
Liberal Christian philosopher and liberal theologian
45 Ludwig van Beethoven Catholic composer
46 Werner Heisenberg Lutheran a founder of quantum mechanics; discovered principle of uncertainty; head of Nazi Germany's nuclear program
47 Louis Daguerre ?? an inventor/pioneer of photography
48 Simon Bolivar Catholic (nominal); Atheist National hero of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia
49 Rene Descartes Catholic Rationalist philosopher and mathematician
50 Michelangelo Catholic painter; sculptor; architect
51 Pope Urban II Catholic called for First Crusade
52 'Umar ibn al-Khattab Islam Second Caliph; expanded Muslim empire
53 Asoka Buddhism king of India who converted to and spread Buddhism
54 St. Augustine Greek state paganism; Manicheanism; Catholic Early Christian theologian
55 William Harvey Anglican (nominal) described the circulation of blood; wrote Essays on the Generation of Animals, the basis for modern embryology
56 Ernest Rutherford ?? physicist; pioneer of subatomic physics
57 John Calvin Protestant; Calvinism Protestant reformer; founder of Calvinism
58 Gregor Mendel Catholic (Augustinian monk) Mendelian genetics
59 Max Planck Protestant physicist; thermodynamics
60 Joseph Lister Quaker principal discoverer of antiseptics which greatly reduced surgical mortality
61 Nikolaus August Otto ?? built first four-stroke internal combustion engine
62 Francisco Pizarro Catholic Spanish conqueror in South America; defeated Incas
63 Hernando Cortes Catholic conquered Mexico for Spain; through war and introduction of new diseases he largely destroyed Aztec civilization
64 Thomas Jefferson Episcopalian; Deist 3rd president of United States
65 Queen Isabella I Catholic Spanish ruler
66 Joseph Stalin Russian Orthodox; Atheist; Marxism revolutionary and ruler of USSR
67 Julius Caesar Roman state paganism Roman emperor
68 William the Conqueror Catholic laid foundation of modern England
69 Sigmund Freud Jewish; atheist; Freudian psychology/psychoanalysis founded Freudian school of psychology/psychoanalysis (i.e., the "religion of Freudianism")
70 Edward Jenner Anglican discoverer of the vaccination for smallpox
71 Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen ?? discovered X-rays
72 Johann Sebastian Bach Lutheran; Catholic composer
73 Lao Tzu Taoism founder of Taoism
74 Voltaire raised in Jansenism;
later Deist writer and philosopher; wrote Candide
75 Johannes Kepler Lutheran astronomer; planetary motions
76 Enrico Fermi Catholic initiated the atomic age; father of atom bomb
77 Leonhard Euler Calvinist physicist; mathematician; differential and integral calculus and algebra
78 Jean-Jacques Rousseau born Protestant;
converted as a teen to Catholic;
later Deist French deistic philosopher and author
79 Nicoli Machiavelli Catholic wrote The Prince (influential political treatise)
80 Thomas Malthus Anglican (cleric) economist; wrote Essay on the Principle of Population
81 John F. Kennedy Catholic U.S. President who led first successful effort by humans to travel to another "planet"
82 Gregory Pincus Jewish endocrinologist; developed birth-control pill
83 Mani Manicheanism founder of Manicheanism, once a world religion which rivaled Christianity in strength
84 Lenin Russian Orthodox;
Atheist; Marxism/Communism Russian ruler
85 Sui Wen Ti Chinese traditional religion unified China
86 Vasco da Gama Catholic navigator; discovered route from Europe to India around Cape Hood
87 Cyrus the Great Zoroastrianism founder of Persian empire
88 Peter the Great Russian Orthodox forged Russia into a great European nation
89 Mao Zedong Atheist; Communism; Maoism founder of Maoism, Chinese form of Communism
90 Francis Bacon Anglican philosopher; delineated inductive scientific method
91 Henry Ford Protestant developed automobile; achievement in manufacturing and assembly
92 Mencius Confucianism philosopher; founder of a school of Confucianism
93 Zoroaster Zoroastrianism founder of Zoroastrianism
94 Queen Elizabeth I Anglican British monarch; restored Church of England to power after Queen Mary
95 Mikhail Gorbachev Russian Orthodox Russian premier who helped end Communism in USSR
96 Menes Egyptian paganism unified Upper and Lower Egypt
97 Charlemagne Catholic Holy Roman Empire created with his baptism in 800 AD
98 Homer Greek paganism epic poet
99 Justinian I Catholic Roman emperor; reconquered Mediterranean empire; accelerated Catholic-Monophysite schism
100 Mahavira Hinduism; Jainism founder of Jainism

Estimated IQ Below

Sadly guys a little more piffle :bigsmile:

Peace and light

Reply Mon 1 Jun, 2009 12:29 pm
@Alan McDougall,
The grand old duke of york..15..Why not have a humorous count..
0 Replies
Reply Mon 12 Sep, 2016 01:28 pm
The people here who've taken offense might fall in to some statistical groups:

Scored low(er) than they like and resent the results
Worry about Eugenics
Feel compassionate for those groups who score low

It is funny that they will accept the science of quantum physics, elasticity of time and the age of the universe inferred by the hubble shift and temperature of the CMB... only to say that though humans can do these things -- we're too dumb to measure human intelligence or BETTER -- there is no such thing is it, because an autistic has a high ability in math.

In part we can forgive them if they don't understand the role of "G" and the fact that with a high "G" score, you can learn all things faster than a person with a lower "G" score... who doesn't have a categorical ability for the subject in question (math, per se, which is an easy one to measure).

I'd venture a guess that no one here who does find this to be fun consequently would be a fan of eugenic politics, assuming an individual's ability based on the group from which they're a member, etc.

Lastly, all the disdain that people have against the validity of IQ would be unwilling to play a game where they're obligated to bet against my ability to say that someone's of above or below average intelligence; and that ability to predict who is intelligent is all the test is doing. That is to say, the test is making sense of the intuitions we already have -- and then quantifies it.
Reply Thu 15 Sep, 2016 01:44 am
hello, seven year old thread, may i introduce you to one version of the 2016 douche...
0 Replies
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 07:49 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Hitler's IQ is in best case between 120 and 130. This guy had superior force in his hands and managed to reduce Germany to rubles. Making wrong decisions in a given situation is not a sign of high intelligence, to the contrary. His verbal IQ is estimated to had been slightly over 120. And if you could understand his screaming speeches, you would be surprised that he got even that high. I wouldn't be surprised if you rate Trump 200 for his 200 word vocabulary. ":-)
0 Replies
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2016 07:56 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Ha, ha, Hitler 147!
0 Replies
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2016 03:42 pm
well.... he just subdued masses with his terrifying/remarkable oral skills that made a whole country support his ideology and his political party
0 Replies
Fil Albuquerque
Reply Wed 21 Dec, 2016 06:41 pm
From 133 up to 150 I got all kinds of results from official and informal sources...While the IQ test can point vaguely to something it speaks little on the intricacies and complexity of the human soul.
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 12:17 am
@Fil Albuquerque,

Simple people
0 Replies
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2016 07:25 am
I examined your list and noticed that my name was not near the top so therefore it is invalid.
0 Replies

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