@Exebeche,
Exebeche;93640 wrote:Even though your argument might be brilliant, you certainly agree that science is interested in finding truth.
From a logical perspective however it gets complicated very quickly.
Even just finding truth and finding THE truth already creates an essential conflict. That's why science tries to work based on the most simple compromise which is logic. Thus accepting that it might not find THE truth, but at least excluding what is not proven to be true.
This is the ideal, no doubt, but in reality western metaphysics and physics do not follow logic, and do not exclude what is demonstrably absurd. This is their entire problem, the whole reason we still don't have a fundamental theory of anything. If they did follow logic then they would be mysticism. It is only this reluctance to follow logic that makes them inconsistent with mysticism. This may seem an unlikely claim, but it's not difficult to verify its truth.
It has been proved many times, most famously by Nagarjuna (the founder of the Middle Way schools of Buddhism) and by Francis Bradley (
Appearance and Reality), that all positive metaphysical position are logically indefensible. This is taken for granted by most philosophers these days. By abduction this leaves just two positions; Dialethism, which is logically indefensible, and mysticism, for which all positive positions would be logically indefensible because they are false.
This is not well known, obviously, but it's known to everybody who doesn't reject mystcism out of hand and looks into these issues. If we accept the results of logic then we are a mystical philosopher. Metaphysics is surprisingly straighforward in mysticism. There are no 'problems of philosophy', we just believe what reason tells us. Then we find ourselves following in the footsteps of Kant, Hegel, Bradley and their like.
Quote:Accepting ideas that are not falsifiable would mean accepting any rubbish that comes across, which would lead to an infinite number of useless theories that are even contradicting each others.
It's extremely difficult to come up with a theory of everything which is unfalsifiable. Have you tried? I know of only one such theory, and am unable to invent another. I suppose theism could be called unfalsifiable, but most forms of it give rise to contradictions, it is just that theists ignore them.
Unfalsifiable propositions are often trivial in what they claim. But Kant calls the unfalsifiability of scepticism the 'scandal of philosophy.' We have to watch out that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. A true theory of everything would not be falsifiable. My metaphysical position is unfalsifiable, and it is the only one that is. I think this it is suggestive. At any rate, we can't assume that the doctrine of the mystics is false simply because we can't prove it is in logic. This would not be science or philosophy.
Quote:A true hypothesis can be excluded by this method in the first place. But it still has a lot of open doors to get back inside, whereas junk will remain excluded. Which means any theory that gets rejected from science can get back when it's not junk. Your theory included.
It's already back, and never really went away. In consciousness studies it's called Relative Phenomenalism. Bradley calls it Absolute Idealism. I call it the doctrine of mysticism. It's never been formally rejected by science, like, say, the Copernican theory, or philostogen, it's just been assumed that it's nonsense. I think it's time this asumption was examined scientifically.
Quote:The laws of science are deducted from observations of the outside world whereas the ideas of mysticism are deducted from observations of the individuals' inside world which is totally individual and varies from one person to another, as oppose to scientific observations. To name only the most significant difference that comes to my mind.
The mystic does not make the mistake of observing just one or the other. Nobody can ignore the evidence of their senses. It is easy to verify that mysticism is not only about exploring the inner world. If it did it would leave a vast part of the world unexamined.
Quote:Science can be practised like religion.
This is all too clear. And vice versa, which is not so clear.
Quote:There is something like an orthodox scientism. Actually any scientism is orthodox, even when the theories are contradictory.
Nothing wrong with orthodoxy, imo, but a lot wrong with dogma. I can never quite pin down what scientism is. It seems to be opposite of science.
Quote:Regardless of what belief one has, may it be Einstein's or Plato's, the criterion of falsifiability is a logical one, and as such so basic that it draws a clear line between truth and wish. When a theory does not serve this criterion we can not blame science guilty for the ignorance of being blind to any possible truth. Falsifiability is a major logical criterion. I can't help it.
I understand what you're suggesting, and why, but I believe it's incorrect. It looks like Popper's view but it isn't. Rather, it harks back to Carnap's logical positivism. Are you sure you're not talking about testability. That's a slightly different issue. It's possible for a theory to be unfalsifiable in logic but testable in physics, and the doctrine of mysticism is just such a theory. We can never say that a theory is unfalsifiable in physics, we can only say that it hasn't been falsified so far.
I agree that unfalsifiable theories are uninteresting in physics, but this is not the case where the theory makes testable predictions.
---------- Post added 09-29-2009 at 09:03 PM ----------
prothero;93748 wrote:Whitehead makes for difficult reading but his system of thought is I think entirely compatible with both modern science and human experience.
In the end there is much to be gained from Whitehead. Probaby particulary useful to those who feel drawn to eastern philosophy and eastern religous practice but would like to ground those intutions in Western philosophy and science.
I agree, for what it's worth, although personally I wouldn't recommend him as a place to start.
It may be worth noting here in passing that Whitehead is speaking about Nature, and not about the universe, when he says, '
The reality is the process.' This statement is consistent with a mystical view only if we give Nature an ontological grounding and assume that these processes are underlain by a real phenomenon. The idea that the universe is no more than fields on fields is incomprehensible. In mysticism the term 'reality' is usually reserved for the source of these processes.