Two dreams

Thank you, catch for that perspective. It seems to be the nightmare vs. the dream as we come to realize that which dominates our lives to find that peace we all seek, IMO. Please forgive my levity, but it reminds me of a saying Nipsy Russell related as a comparison:

"It was a nightmare, it was a dream.
I tossed and turned all through the night,
Two women were fighting to make love to me,
And the ugly broad kept winning the fight".

I hope you smiled.

William

Great parallelism molding the two stanzas into one poem.

The text came after a television documentary on the "Blitz", followed by sitting on the patio in the summer eve. Well, at least now I learned who Nipsy Russell was. But of course I saw it on a different scale, Man like a Faust or a Dante, torn between (self-induced) Heaven and Hell. Why did you think we were thrown out of paradise?

Thank you Catch, that is the rub, isn't it? What if we were not "kicked out" and we walked out into the unknown to seek knowledge for ourselves what lay beyond if for no other reason than can be defined other than "boredom". IMO, that makes an enormous amount of sense for how could we possibly reach any understanding to those definitions of perfection and paradise without realizing their "opposites"? So it can also be concluded IMO, in the innate overwhelming "sensation" of life itself as we observed "death" we viewed it as a punishment, of sorts, that disturbed those sensations instilling a "greed" for that life itself. In lieu of it (death) being a renewal as to that learning experience as we develope wisdom from having experience the two dualities; Perfection and imperfection. One being our imagination of what hell/imperfection/punishment is, as opposed to that same imagination of what heaven/perfection/reward should be as we imagine the unknown (the future) that does not exist except in those imaginings. IMO this duality had to occur in that in our perfection it is the only way we could possible learn, being as hard headed as most perfect creations are, Ha. To me there is a big difference in being a perfectionist and realizing the nature of our perfection. That is life itself and the harmony of it all as it is a learning experience and death is a part of it as we continue to reach for perfection that will never end, ending that "greed" that is indeed itself responsible for the hell we experience. IMMHO.

William

i saw old movies about the war in england how during the air raids everyone would stop what they were doing and go into a cellar, and sit and wait to be able to get on with their life. if possible sometimes they continued whatever they were doing in the bomb shelter-a band performing in a club, for instance, took their instruments and resumed the act. gamblers continued their game...

these two dreams go on simultaneously in a lot of the world now. in karachi you may go out to buy vegetables and be shot down or hit with grenades-i mean you very likely will be. yet if you dont go out to get food you will also die. so life goes on...the worst part of it is the resulting numbness to it all.

William, with all due respect that is pretty hard to decipher. Do I see some "broad view" in which even the most terrible things play their part, as some kind of cosmic fatality, as a stepstone to our growth and perfection? Do we "need" war somehow, to know the joys of peace? Do we need horror to "know"; and to understand who we are and what life is? Do you "go beyond good and evil" like Nietzsche? To be clear: I simply don't understand. But after all I'm not a philosopher ;-) .

Thank you catch. No we don't need war! But I do believe there is a "cosmic justice" of which I haven't a clue. We, in the broadest sense have no idea of what "the joys of peace" really means in that it has never existed; only respites in between conflicts, IMO. Do we need horror? Obviously, huh? How much of that horror are we willing to put up with before we finally learn? I am not necessarily speaking of all individuals for there are those who are very adept of making lemonade out of the lemons life tosses at them and miraculously? are spared those "horrors". I can't explain that in it's entirety either. But I know there is a reason, some how.

I don't know how old you are and to what extent you have witnessed "horror" and the torment it has on you. It seems it is a relative condition and can be "thought" way out of proportion by anyone such as might be defined in "phobias"? It, I think, depends on what we "expect" from life and what we actually receive. That can be disappointing, to say the least.

I have learned not to let my mind "get carried away" and have learned to live and focus in the moment and give it all I have, leaving yesterday alone and eagerly awaiting what tomorrow will bring. I don't know how hard this is for others to do. I really don't. We are so accustomed to liveing and coping with fear, it is indeed hard to imagine this. But it does work. It offers a peace that is hard to communicate amidst all the confusion in the world.

As far as my post, you must observe from a very high perch to grasp it's significance. Again, it is hard to describe this, but I know I do zoom out there every now and then and take a good look, Ha. It is from that perspective many of my posts come from.

I hope this help a little considering I know little of your personal situation except what you have mention to us. Those are your "lemons", make the most of them you possibly can in an effort to make the best liemonade you can; don't let lemons sour the life you do have.

William

My thanks to you William, for this exoteric explanation of a rather esoteric comment ;-) . Whatever be the Cosmic Equilibrium, Higher Justice or whatever, I'm sure it will recognize the dignity of our free will as the basis of ethical behavior. And we will be "spit out" by Whoever-Who, if we didn't do our utmost best to avoid war and to defend peace. This is more easily said than done, and I remember we talked about this before. I don't have any solutions yet, except what I feel to be good. Yes, "feel" to be good. It can avoid the mistakes of too much reasonable thinking... ;-)