GOD-The infinite computer

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

God is the mind consciousness the thought that made EXISTENCE.

But can an ant describe me, as a finite entity I must be more remote from the mind of god than the mind of an ant is from mine

Alan i cant imagine this creator nor can i feel he has substance that can be described .I'm agnostic i dont think its possible IF he exist to comprehend or know him..He may only be seen like the marvel of looking at the night sky or seeing new birth but is he seen in the agony of death.I'm not so sure i will ever know.

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@DJMaux,

XRIS

Quote:

Alan i cant imagine this creator nor can i feel he has substance that can be described .I'm agnostic i dont think its possible IF he exist to comprehend or know him..He may only be seen like the marvel of looking at the night sky or seeing new birth but is he seen in the agony of death.I'm not so sure i will ever know

Well the bible says The heavens declare the glory of God that is in exact accord with your statement about seeing god in the night sky.

The bible also says "My thoughts are not your thoughts and my thoughts are as high as the heavens compared to your thoughts".

Now death was not the plan of God for this world and something went very wrong long ago

Like you I have this difficulty in understanding a God who makes having to kill another life to sustain or mortal bodies.

I love animals and this is a real conumdrem to me. This eat or be eaten to me is savage and I don't like it, but it is an unfortunate reality I must live with

I was an atheist for many years , but after reading Pascals challege I began to think t better to believe than not to believe. You know sort of "There are no atheist in the trenches"

I will look up Pascals Challenge and post it ASAP

2 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

Now death was not the plan of God for this world and something went very wrong long ago

Do things happen that are outside of God's will/plan?

I would say that God has 2 wills. One is his known will. The other his secret will.

We know that God does not like murder. That his known will is not for murder to happen.

We know that murder happens. We don't know why his secret will allows murder to happen.

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

I will look up Pascals Challenge and post it ASAP

Here ya go: [INDENT]"If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is."

[/INDENT]

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@click here,

click here (I did)

Quote:

Do things happen that are outside of God's will/plan?

I would say that God has 2 wills. One is his known will. The other his secret will.

We know that God does not like murder. That his known will is not for murder to happen.

We know that murder happens. We don't know why his secret will allows murder to happen.

Nice post I perceive a profound thinker in you!

In a way you are correct about Gods will, Gods permissive will and Gods active will (where he interferes in our destiny)

God will is Divine but he gave us a free will with no reservations ALL OF US.

This explains evens like the Holocaust where he appeared to not hear the prayers of those desperate people. He heard them and wept with their suffering, in the Form of Jesus he actually took on their suffering by his foresight.

Remember God is DIVINE AND HOLY and perfectly fair and just.

So if he had suspended the free will of monsters like Hitler and his depraved followers, being fair in the absolute he would have been compelled by his own righteousness to suspend "all humanities free will" and reduce us to robots which would have reduced us to the level of us just another animal of the earth albeit an highly intelligent animal.

When humanity has matured God will in his wisdom give us more free will than we have at present as then he could be able to trust us with it

Gods known will is evident in the cosmic fundamental constants the beauty and wonder of his creation and in the words of the greater sacred scriptures of religion and philosophy for that fact

Of course God has secrets that he must keep to himself .In my "near death event", I briefly experienced a sort of union with the mind of God. It was wonderful and absolutely confusing and terrifying at the same time.

I think God only allowed me to experience his great mind for a time to brief for a human to measure. If it had continued for longer, my mind would simply have dissolved and dissipated into the void

The best crude analogy I can think of is; take a little pet dog and bring his little doggy mind into the totality of a kind mind like Albert Einstein, he would be confused horrified, frightened maybe even to the point of death, would he not?,

Even though Einstein was a animal lover (I am not sure about that, but use it to get my point over)

Hey I have tried my best to explain my take on this topic, I hope what I have detailed is not to ambiguous?

Help me if it is!!

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@DJMaux,

XRIS

Here is the promised Pascals Wager!!

[CENTER][CENTER]http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html[/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
[CENTER]Here is Pascal's wager relating to the belief or non belief in God[/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
[CENTER]Go to the link there is much of interest there (assuming you are not familiar with Pascal)[/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
[CENTER] [/CENTER]
[CENTER]Pascal's Wager[/CENTER][/CENTER]
In the seventeenth century the mathematician Blaise Pascal formulated his infamous pragmatic argument for belief in God in . The argument runs as follows:
If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation).
How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on

2 Replies

@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

XRIS

Here is the promised Pascals Wager!!

I think Blaise was just trying to present a way to get people thinking. No one is going to go to 'eternal bliss' just by leaning one way. but it gets you thinking one way and then you go from there.

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@Alan McDougall,

Alan McDougall wrote:

XRIS

Here is the promised Pascals Wager!!

[CENTER]http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Here is Pascal's wager relating to the belief or non belief in God[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Go to the link there is much of interest there (assuming you are not familiar with Pascal)[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Pascal's Wager[/CENTER]

In the seventeenth century the mathematician Blaise Pascal formulated his infamous pragmatic argument for belief in God in . The argument runs as follows:
If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation).
How should you bet? Regardless of any evidence for or against the existence of God, Pascal argued that failure to accept God's existence risks losing everything with no payoff on any count. The best bet, then, is to accept the existence of God. There have been several objections to the wager: that a person cannot simply will himself to believe something that is evidently false to him; that the wager would apply as much to belief in the wrong God as it would to disbelief in all gods, leaving the the believer in any particular god in the same situation as the atheist or agnostic; that God would not reward belief in him based solely on hedging one's bets; and so on

Its not raining but ill put my umbrella up just in case..its not logical nor ethical..If there is god dont you think he would know what is in your heart or is he as naive as your pascal.If i cant find him i wont invent him ,but i hope you are satisfied..

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@DJMaux,

XRIS AND CLICK HERE

Hey XRIS Pascal does not belong to me I did not just swallow his nonsense, but sometimes the silliest idea can lead you to greater truth. Not that I am the essence of this truth, but I try and I can see by your dialogue so do you guys

Dear old Pascal seems to have suffered from loop thinking, as a former computer geek this was a real problem at times as the computer just ran and ran and ran until we had to switch off and start again

But hey I believe the old guy (god) is up there or everywhere , it really makes no difference what we believe, the truth remains the truth whatever we think And my little puny mind cannot contain all truth and knowledge so I have decided to be theist or at least a deist

So god exist ?? ......................? Or god does not exist?...............................?

I am interested in your responses by putting it so directly. I deliberately left no middle ground in the answers

1 Reply

@Alan McDougall,

Its not possible to know..I dont answer because i dont know, its beyond my reasoning.. I will not be drawn into saying yes because he would be known to me and he is not. I have reasons to muse but not reasons to believe..

1 Reply

@xris,

Well yea... and the whole notion that says, act like you believe so you don't get in trouble is so disingenuous, so unattractive by encouraging dishonesty/self deception, that I find it as having no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Lie, just in case! Yea... that's a good idea Surprised

But for those of you who, by round-a-bout discovery with this wager, have found goodness and peace: Good for you! It's only the core suggestion that I take issue with.

Thanks

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GOD-The infinite computer

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