Self-Organization

It may sound a little bit odd at first, but i think i have a pretty clear explanation of how
Intelligence and Self-Organization
are connected.

Thanks Exebeche, I cant believe I didnt notice that thread awhile ago or else I would have contributed. Oh well... I like how you used the term intelligence because when looking at these systems it seems almost obvious that a form of intelligence is arising. The parts seem to be communicating with its immediate neighbors and as the process continues the whole becomes something beyond its makeup. This whole topic is quite interesting to me and Im trying to find some good reading material on the subject but until then I still wonder exactly why this happens... is there some sort of rule or law these systems are following that we just dont know yet???

I have actually studied some of these concepts and ideas a couple of years back, but at the time it was a little over my head. Look into complex systems theory, chaos theory, fractal geometry, and feedback loops. Those all touch on self-organizing systems and are related studies.

... Chaisson has an interesting book entitled "Cosmic Evolution: The Rise of Complexity in Nature" ... in it, he proposes that it is the very expansion of the universe that is the underlying driver behind self-organization ... immediately after the big bang, there was nothing but energetic radiation ... as the universe expanded, the radiation passed a density/thermal tipping point and matter started to condense ... as the universe continued to expand, another density/thermal tipping point was passed and the condensation of matter ceased, leaving a uniform mixture of radiation and matter ... as the universe continues to expand, entropy acts differently on radiation and matter - the energy density of radiation decreases more slowly than the thermal energy of matter ... this sets up spatial thermodynamic gradients within which energy is just begging to flow ... there is a symmetry of paths through which the energy can flow - but quantum fluctuations force a breaking of the symmetry and only one or a few paths are selected out of the many ... thus out of uniformity, order makes an appearance on the scene ... Chaisson goes on from there to propose how positive feedback between energy flows and the order they create naturally "selects" (in both Darwinian and non-Darwinian senses) ever increasing energy rate densities and ever increasing order complexities in highly localized areas (at the expense of an accelerated increase in entropy for the rest of the universe) ... interesting stuff! :a-ok:

Thanks paul, looks interesting.

After reading some of the comments on the book, apparently he (Chaisson) proposes a quantitative way of measuring complexity? If so Im curious as to what it would be....

... he calls it "free energy rate density" (flow of free energy per unit time per unit mass) ... his assertion is that the universe is always optimizing/maximizing this measure by way of increased complexity, and calculates estimates of FERD for various bodies in the universe ... for example, a human body is more complex than the sun and has a correspondingly higher FERD ... likewise, a cultural cyborg is more complex than a naked human body and has a correspondingly higher FERD ...

I highly recommend the book The Web of Life, by Fritjof Capra, the author of The Tao of Physics. The book is about a new scientific understanding of living systems, and ties many concepts together--including self-organization. The book totally changed how I think about living systems, and how things are interrelated, while also integrating human society into the web of life.

Hello Paulhanke nice to see you again.

I am glad to hear that it's appreciated.
If my job wasn't so demanding these days i would also have continued.
Anyway the book by Fritjof Capra mentioned by Theaetetus also was my introduction to the topic. A very nice to read lecture that teaches all the basic terms and principles to get deeper into the topic.
Too bad i can't get the book by Chaisson in german :unsure: but this time i ordered it nonetheless. A bigger challenge but hopefully doable.
My feeling is that humans are about to reveal some of the universe's secrets without looking at makro or microcosmos this time but by looking at the logical structure instead.
My guess would be that Norbert Wiener's words that information is the third factor in the universe next to energy and matter are going to play a greater role.
I wonder if information plays a role in Chaisson's book?

Interesting... after reading a couple essays on the subject it seems like the universe (at least in this "stage") is made for complexity evolution. It seems like the universe is more prone towards organization rather than disorder....

Well, the aspects of the universe that tend toward organisation (i.e. charged particles and aggregates thereof, or very massive bodies and aggregates thereof) will continue to tend toward organisation, while those that tend toward disorder will never tend toward organisation. One must consider the whole, not just the bits that back up a view, in order to make statements about the universe. Much of the matter and energy in the universe weakly interacts and, as such, will play little part in organisation. If you like, the existence of organisation at all is an evolutionary process: only that which can take part does take part. Since there exists matter that can, it does. This is not a sign of some propensity of the universe for organisation, merely a side-effect of the fact that organisation can happen.

Awsome subject. I'm trying to incorperate systems theory (or what this silly laymen thinks of as systems theory) into my own system..pun intended. :bigsmile: