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Fri 19 Jun, 2009 01:19 pm
This thread is a sub-thread of the thread "Our caged in Lives" to discuss what our definition of freedom should be.
To start off:
As I said in the other thread, government sort-of prohibits many things, and we are said to live in a "free country", is this really free?
@Zacrates,
Hi,
Many people will say yes. Mostly because of the way freedom of speech and press, etc. are enshrined in the Bill of Rights of the Constitution. But I think most people will also concede there are plenty of laws that limit our freedom.
Rich
@richrf,
Although these laws, (at least most of them, like blue laws, etc.) are meant to protect us are they not? So in a way while they are somewhat restricting our "freedom" they are actually pretesting our other more valuable freedoms.
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70450 wrote:Although these laws, (at least most of them, like blue laws, etc.) are meant to protect us are they not? So in a way while they are somewhat restricting our "freedom" they are actually pretesting our other more valuable freedoms.
Hi,
There are all kinds of laws for all kinds of reasons. It is difficult to sort them all out. The parking laws in Chicago are there to enrich Morgan-Stanley and Daley's machine. But, I guess I gotta live with them.
Rich
@Zacrates,
The utility of government and law is to protect the freedom of our non-coercive actions. The only freedom that it restricts is the freedom of aggression and coercion because aggression and coercion is not conducive to freedom.
@hue-man,
I completely agree with you, but it is just the feeling of living in a world being controlled by someone is an odd one.
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70591 wrote:I completely agree with you, but it is just the feeling of living in a world being controlled by someone is an odd one.
Hi,
I know how you feel, but Cheney is gone. Obama is President now. You can relax.
Rich
@Zacrates,
Even if some laws limits my freedom, I still wouldn't want to live without them. They limits my freedom but they increase my security.
@Lily,
Lily;70643 wrote:Even if some laws limits my freedom, I still wouldn't want to live without them. They limits my freedom but they increase my security.
Hi Lily,
Really good point. Life is a compromise. I'm with you.
Rich
@richrf,
That is indeed a very good point, so even though your freedom is limited, in some sense it is a good thing because it is giving you better security?
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70647 wrote:That is indeed a very good point, so even though your freedom is limited, in some sense it is a good thing because it is giving you better security?
Hi there,
Totally with this line of thought. Within everything there is both sides. So the constraints of laws may be limiting in one regard but actually freeing in another (e.g., less stress because more secure).
Nice ideas. Thanks.
Rich
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70647 wrote:That is indeed a very good point, so even though your freedom is limited, in some sense it is a good thing because it is giving you better security?
Yes. And I don't mind obeying the law. It's better than being robbed, live with dugies and/or murdered. Our society might be limiting, but it's working.
@Zacrates,
You are right, but would you break the law for a cause greater then obeying it?
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70591 wrote:I completely agree with you, but it is just the feeling of living in a world being controlled by someone is an odd one.
I think that we all control the world or society on some level, and democracy makes it so that we choose the leaders who govern us; so who really has the power, us (the citizens) or them (the politicians)?
@hue-man,
The politicians do. If you think about it the only thing we can do is elect them, the government has the power to do what they want, and nothing can change that. It is not like each and every one of us vote on every single issue.
@Zacrates,
give a rating out of 10
i) How free to form policies do you think Obama really is?
ii) How free to form policies do you think Mugabe is?
iii) How free to form policies do you think Hitler was?
My answers
i) 1
ii) 1
iii) 1
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;70720 wrote:The politicians do. If you think about it the only thing we can do is elect them, the government has the power to do what they want, and nothing can change that. It is not like each and every one of us vote on every single issue.
I hear what you're saying, but I'm saying that our right to vote gives us some share of power and responsibility. The masses shouldn't vote on every single issue. That's called a majority dictatorship.
@hue-man,
I guess so, but your before statement still isn' totally true.
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