1
   

The brain is a computer?

 
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 03:38 am
@Poseidon,
Fundamental neuroscience - Google Books
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 05:06 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;68739 wrote:
I've never read anything to that effect. Again, my say here might very well be out of sheer ignorance, but it was explained to me in Psych 101 that the brain-computer thing is simply a comparison and that brain-machine comparisons have been popular for a couple hundred years or so.
What if computers advanced to the point that they mimicked the brain in almost every way.They became electrochemical self sustaining,self repairing with the ability to see hear etc.Would that make the brain a computer by the advance of the computer?
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 05:15 am
@Poseidon,
Or try to see things this way:

SETI Fiction: They're Made Out Of Meat

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
Kielicious
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 04:17 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;68749 wrote:
Or try to see things this way:

SETI Fiction: They're Made Out Of Meat

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."



I remember first reading that in Colin McGinns book and found it so funny and ironic. Good stuff.
0 Replies
 
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 04:19 pm
@xris,
xris;68748 wrote:
What if computers advanced to the point that they mimicked the brain in almost every way.They became electrochemical self sustaining,self repairing with the ability to see hear etc.Would that make the brain a computer by the advance of the computer?


By that time, the brain will be so advanced, that it would be able to instantly teleport itself away from the computers - just to get some relief.

Rich
0 Replies
 
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 04:26 pm
@Poseidon,
Are you suggesting evolution is faster than technology

Cuz it's not
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 06:30 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;68877 wrote:
Are you suggesting evolution is faster than technology

Cuz it's not


Oh. Much faster. The human mind is already thinking about what is the next thing to do with a iPhone, while a computer is doing nothing. For one iPhone, there are a million zillion googoplex of ideas (and maybe more). However, I don't want to pick too much on computers. Their feelings may be hurt. They have feelings don't they?

Rich
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 06:54 pm
@richrf,
richrf;68906 wrote:
Oh. Much faster. The human mind is already thinking about what is the next thing to do with a iPhone, while a computer is doing nothing.


In 1990, the best neural network was between a worm and an insect in number of neurons and synapses.

In 2009, the best neural networks are starting, albeit slowly, to rival the human brain.

Are you seriously suggesting evolution is that fast?

And again, I raise the point:

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

Stop indulging in meat chauvinism. Ignorance is cute for a while; then it gets irritating when we find out it's willful.

When you can present an argument against artificial neurons being every bit as good as their biological counterparts, rather than a kind of vague vitalism based on mistaken preconceptions, then you will have an argument.
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 07:21 pm
@odenskrigare,
I don't feel inferior to a computer. But I'll teach you a trick, if you ever do. Just pull the plug on it. It works for me every time. I get the warm fuzzies when I do it. I AM SUPERIOR! Woot, woot!

Rich
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 07:44 pm
@richrf,
richrf;68925 wrote:
I don't feel inferior to a computer. But I'll teach you a trick, if you ever do. Just pull the plug on it. It works for me every time. I get the warm fuzzies when I do it. I AM SUPERIOR! Woot, woot!

Rich


You are failing to consider that machines in development even now do not have "plugs" per se

That being said, the human machine is very easy to shut down, permanently:

http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.rnw.nl/images/assets/13945033-redirected

I hit my computer with a hoe and it didn't die. Any suggestions?
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 08:31 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;68933 wrote:
You are failing to consider that machines in development even now do not have "plugs" per se

That being said, the human machine is very easy to shut down, permanently:

http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.rnw.nl/images/assets/13945033-redirected

I hit my computer with a hoe and it didn't die. Any suggestions?


Was this done by computers or humans.

OK. Take out the battery. The main point is to shut off the computer before it shuts down your brain. It is a game of survival of the fittest. And I don't want the computer to evolve before I am able to fly faster than a speeding bullet.

Rich
0 Replies
 
articwind4
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 08:31 pm
@Paggos,
having read all of the comments so far i think i can help out somewhat...
There is a fairly recent animated series out there by the name of "serial experiment lain" written by a Chinese philosopher (his name escapes me at the moment). the setting is in the near future about a year after "the wired" is created. the wired is, in theory, the next step along the Internet, it is essentualy a "virtual Internet". the story starts out basically then the protagonists friend starts a wave of people "leaving there physical bodies" and supposedly appearing on the wired. then the story turns into a series of "philosophic monologue's" about how the barrier between the physical world and the wired is slowly deteriorating. The fallowing is direct copy of one of the monolouges that relates the this discussion...
"the earth, while orbiting the sun has its own specific electromagnetic waves between the ionosphere and the earths surface there is a constant resonance at a frequency of 8Hz in the ELF band range of frequencies this is called the Schumann resonance However the extent of the effect on humans of these "earth brain waves" that the planet gives of is impossible to quantify and remains a mystery. the human population of the earth is closely approaching that of the number of neurons in the brain. Douglas Rushcoff proposes that the consciousness of the earth its-self might be awakened when all humans on earth become collectively networked and resonate at the same frequency the evolution of the network would follow a neural model path, and just as the neurons in the brain are connected by synapses, the earth its self would become a single neural network... Masami Eiri, chief researcher at tachiban general labs, further developed the hypothesis of a world-wide neural network. His hypothesis proposed a wireless network whereby all humanity would be plugged in at an unconscious level without need of any device..."
so it is theoretically possible that mankind could form a collective whole wherein everyone would be connected in a physically virtual interface without the need of programmers, we would essentualy be self-evolving programs in a network. everyone of us would be an essentualy program executable for a specific goal...
in the series there is also a "god" of the wired who supposedly abandoned his physical body to control the wired. he has no influence on the physical world but is fully capable of modifying the wired. in essence his is the administrator for the wired. if our history were to in the near future produce a network "the wired" and then have the barrier between the wired and the physical world disappointed the only influential person "god"
would in theory retain his powers int the new collective whole and be able to essential with his abilities persuade people to follow his way. in essence in that situation he would be god, but thats a discussion for another forum...
as far as if the brain is comparable with computers there was a neurologist who implanted a chip in his brain that allowed him access to the Internet there is also a new piece of technology out there that synchronizes you brain waves to the computer allowing you to move type with your thoughts and not a keyboard (there is a 1 to 2 year learning curve).
...more to fallow sorry had to cut off
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 09:49 pm
@articwind4,
richrf;68949 wrote:
Was this done by computers or humans.

OK. Take out the battery. The main point is to shut off the computer before it shuts down your brain. It is a game of survival of the fittest. And I don't want the computer to evolve before I am able to fly faster than a speeding bullet.

Rich


What if personhood can simply take on a newer, more potent form in this era?

articwind4;68950 wrote:
having read all of the comments so far i think i can help out somewhat...
There is a fairly recent animated series out there by the name of "serial experiment lain" written by a Chinese philosopher (his name escapes me at the moment). the setting is in the near future about a year after "the wired" is created. the wired is, in theory, the next step along the Internet, it is essentualy a "virtual Internet". the story starts out basically then the protagonists friend starts a wave of people "leaving there physical bodies" and supposedly appearing on the wired. then the story turns into a series of "philosophic monologue's" about how the barrier between the physical world and the wired is slowly deteriorating. The fallowing is direct copy of one of the monolouges that relates the this discussion...
"the earth, while orbiting the sun has its own specific electromagnetic waves between the ionosphere and the earths surface there is a constant resonance at a frequency of 8Hz in the ELF band range of frequencies this is called the Schumann resonance However the extent of the effect on humans of these "earth brain waves" that the planet gives of is impossible to quantify and remains a mystery. the human population of the earth is closely approaching that of the number of neurons in the brain. Douglas Rushcoff proposes that the consciousness of the earth its-self might be awakened when all humans on earth become collectively networked and resonate at the same frequency the evolution of the network would follow a neural model path, and just as the neurons in the brain are connected by synapses, the earth its self would become a single neural network... Masami Eiri, chief researcher at tachiban general labs, further developed the hypothesis of a world-wide neural network. His hypothesis proposed a wireless network whereby all humanity would be plugged in at an unconscious level without need of any device..."
so it is theoretically possible that mankind could form a collective whole wherein everyone would be connected in a physically virtual interface without the need of programmers, we would essentualy be self-evolving programs in a network. everyone of us would be an essentualy program executable for a specific goal...
in the series there is also a "god" of the wired who supposedly abandoned his physical body to control the wired. he has no influence on the physical world but is fully capable of modifying the wired. in essence his is the administrator for the wired. if our history were to in the near future produce a network "the wired" and then have the barrier between the wired and the physical world disappointed the only influential person "god"
would in theory retain his powers int the new collective whole and be able to essential with his abilities persuade people to follow his way. in essence in that situation he would be god, but thats a discussion for another forum...
as far as if the brain is comparable with computers there was a neurologist who implanted a chip in his brain that allowed him access to the Internet there is also a new piece of technology out there that synchronizes you brain waves to the computer allowing you to move type with your thoughts and not a keyboard (there is a 1 to 2 year learning curve).
...more to fallow sorry had to cut off


I have a short story idea involving that global intelligence thing

It's like the modern Internet except the moderators look like Roman soldiers and the bands of trolls roaming the net are like Visigoths and Huns
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 09:58 pm
@odenskrigare,
I love science fiction. Forbidden Planet is one of my favorite movies of all time. I love it when Dr. Mobius takes on the Id within himself as generated by the Krell computers. But ultimately, Dr. Mobius' on Conciousness realizes what is happening and beats back his own generated computer image. Humans reign supreme again!

Rich
odenskrigare
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 10:01 pm
@richrf,
richrf;68974 wrote:
I love science fiction. Forbidden Planet is one of my favorite movies of all time. I love it when Dr. Mobius takes on the Id within himself as generated by the Krell computers. But ultimately, Dr. Mobius' on Conciousness realizes what is happening and beats back his own generated computer image. Humans reign supreme again!

Rich


Read I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream, Colossus, and, of course, the play that introduced the word "robot" to the world: Rossum's Universal Robots.

And for non-fiction titles ...... Mind Children by Hans Moravec
richrf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jun, 2009 08:21 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;68976 wrote:
Read I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream, Colossus, and, of course, the play that introduced the word "robot" to the world: Rossum's Universal Robots.

And for non-fiction titles ...... Mind Children by Hans Moravec


All right! Thanks.

Rich
0 Replies
 
 

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