Toughest Philosophical Questions

Or tell me what the hell it has to do with me.

(By the way, the first sentence seems to make no sense.)

My 6:20pm post, above.

http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

I only skimmed though half of it but yes it does seem true. I do think that we need to implement this logic in all that we do from economics to all other social issues. We need to stop believing and start implementing a scientific method in all areas of life. Then we will see a huge change.

Ok, first I'm not lying or selling lies about anything. I'm saying "Good" and "Evil" wouldn't exist if people didn't exist, because people are the only thing that can bring anything that is considered "good" and "evil" into existence. Not some outside force such as "God" or "the Devil" as the most believed in organised monotheistic religions preach to everyone, because unlike "God" or "the Devil" we are proven to actually exist. Humans have created everything that we all live in. God didn't create our cultures, our skyscrapers, or any of our inventions. Just as God didn't create our wars, our racism, our financal systems that are failing, or the laws that we should live by. And if I'm wrong, then God is obviously not all knowing or perfect, because a perfect God would've just made us all objective able to experience everything the same, unable to question God's word. Why go through the trouble of making everyone different or give people the ability to make their own choices? An all knowing God would know better and would've saw the consequences of such a thing.

Trying to distinguish what's "Good" and "Evil" to each subjective being isn't really relative to the fact that WE are the ones that create what they are, and they are going to be different, because we can't know what anyone else is really thinking or what they really believe. As the world shows us, it's impossible to make seperate, self creating beings believe in one universal belief, spiritually. People are the only things that are creating anything on this planet, because we are what God isn't, the ability to be proven real. Not only physically, but by the choices that we make, which obviously affects us and the reality we exist in, including other people that exists with us. We are more Godlike to ourselves than any single all knowing God is.

Everyone is free and that's the one thing that most people do not see in this world. They think they are suffering for whatever reason, but they have the power to change it in any number of ways. It's just the fear of thinking they can't possibly change their situations that holds them back. But it's possible to change any situation or experience that anyone has been through. People prove it all the time. Sure people grow up in terrible situations, but people have also proven that they can get themselves out of those situations and make their lives what they want them to be. You're "slaveness" is just fear of not knowing what they can actually do.

But I guess my main point is, if know one existed, nothing I write would even matter. Good and Evil wouldn't matter and the whole debate about whether God exists wouldn't matter. So what's that tell you about what we are?

Your are wrong.

If you were God, what type of world and creatures would you create? (Think about your existence).

If I were God, I wouldn't have to create anything, because I'd already be perfect and wouldn't need anything to justify my perfection or existence with. I'd be God, what could I possibly need?

What does that have to do with anything that I have written, ci???

This conversation started when wcpato wrote:




You responded:




I called to your attention that you were wrong…absolutely incorrect. Here is what I said:





The agree completely that the burden of proof does fall on the individual making an assertion. I agree with you. But that has nothing whatever to do with what I said above.

Everything that I said here is absolutely correct…and you were incorrect from the standpoint of this particular quote.

So…at some point, you really should acknowledge that you were wrong.

But your position is of an agnostic; "I don't know." Then, you try to push that belief on others. That's where we disagree; logically, you cannot prove a negative about god. Your position is a noncommittal; we commit to the realities of what we can and cannot prove that there are no gods.

The article I provided stated as much.

NOne of that has anything whatever to do with what I said about your statement...namely, that it did not logically follow.

I do not have any "beliefs" to "push on others."

There is a truth that I recognize in my personal life. I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...and I am not disposed to ruling anything in or out on the basis of a blind guess.

Sorry you find that lacking, but that is the way it is with me.

In any case, my comment regarding your comment was correct.

You really ought to acknowledge that, ci.

It has everything to do with our disagreement.

Mike,

You wrote: "Humans have created everything that we all live in."

That sounds so preposterous, I find it hard to accept it came from someone who sounds as intelligent as you.

I seriously doubt you could substantiate that...even if you devoted several scholarly books to the issue.

Allow me to ask you with all the respect in the world:

How do you KNOW that humans have created everything that we all live in (whatever that means)...or is that something you do not know, but guess?

Are you suggesting that there is absolutely no possibility of gods existing (which seems to be the only way your comment could make sense)...and if so, upon what basis do you make that assertion.

Frank,

When I say humans have created everything that we live in, all I'm saying it's humans who have created all of our societies, all of our beliefs, and all of our evils. Surely, you can't believe that the world in general is a wonderful place, with all of the wars, poverty, and hate that exists. I'm sure you can find examples anywhere you look, either in the news, in your neighborhood, or through your own experiences. It's our choices that cause anything to happen, because we are proven to be real, and our choices lead to real consequences; either they be good consequences or bad consequences. And those consequences reflect back to where others do percieve them. If you witness a fistfight, anyone who is present at that fistfight, percieves that fistfight just as you do. It's two people fighting. We may not know why they are fighting, but we know they are. Just as if we witness a construction crew building a house. We understand the consequence of the action they are performing.

If we take that to a broader scope like war, we percieve that people are killing each other by choice. The leaders who started the war aren't actually making people kill others by forcing their choice to do so. Soldiers fight because they believe they should themselves, for whatever reasons they have, either it be they believe in what they fight for, or out of fear of being charged and punished as deserters if they choose not to.

As for wondering if God exists or not, is it really relevent due to the fact that we have no idea if God exists or not? We live in a reality that functions on things that are proven to exist. You can't really disprove that people exist. You can't disprove the fact that the sun exists and heats the planet for anything living to exist. You can't disprove that our choices are what shapes and drives our lives and our societies, because we all are making choices every moment of our lives, that affects what we do at the present and what will happen in our immediate futures. So in a subjective way to each of us, God does exist. Not objectively as monotheistic religions claim, but in each of us, in our own choices because we can "create" through ourselves. Because we are real and there is no debates going on about that fact, that people can actually argue against. I've been following up on your posts with ci about not being able to refute if God exists or not. To me that question is a waste of time, because it's an answer that is impossible to solve. People should be debating on what they know to be real, because those issues are the only thing that any of us have any power to do anything about.

Thank you for being respectful of my post. I would never say your beliefs are wrong. I just try concerning myself on what I and everyone else knows to be real, like human beings and the consequences of the choices they make.

Is not nothing, somethingf?

Thank God you are not God.

Lol...at least no one would have to suffer to acknowlege I exist... Just to be fair, if you were God, what kind of world and creatures would you create?

Mikeymojo

Firstly, what is real? Secondly, how does not proving something mean that something exists subjectively, and in our choices none the less?

Why ask him? Why have you appointed him 'god' in this situation and the holder of your 'fate'?

If you want to know what's real you should take a look at your 'self' and see what's 'there'. No one can 'show' you who you are no matter how much you beg or how nice you ask.

Also, you always know 'truth' from bullshit instantly, no matter how much you bullshit your 'self' about it. All this about 'choices, subjectivity, existing etc. etc.' is your 'clever' word play and your attempt to fit in with the 'philosophical' crowd.

Not really. I just wanted to see if mikeymojo could articulate his ideas. He made some comments and I just asked some questions.

Lying has nothing to offer anyone.

it is completely evil how u think mikey joshua

wat r u talking about, u mean evil ends by pretending being crazy

hey ur blabla is only possible around a table with satan followers makin a session about practicing the ways to **** on everyone living heads with the most cheapest second spent
u cant talk like that publically wat is this forum do u know that much people that run it

u cant use the world reality with speculations about good and evil that noone care about, in all ways n terms it is impossible

when people were not existing but animals were moving around for years some possessions with symbolic abstract abilities came around announcing that all appear **** bc thy mean good and not good and pleasures of bad from gods that existence belong to gods games that is why all is dirty and slaves only beings

why dont u go there since im sure u believe being back in times, go find some animals and play ur possession in having to announce gods powers properties on everyting for borin animals beings tat will challenge u to make them interested

hey moron people have plenty of other things to do **** u for insulting them