The Mind will do exactly what the Brain has instructed

@Holiday20310401,

Personally, I think the Mind instructs the Brain and the brain instructs the Body. The brain is a tool. I liken it to a computer - the quality of the information that comes out will depend on the quality of the information that was fed in.

2 Replies

@Holiday20310401,

The brain is an organ. When a pathologist dissects out the brain at autopsy, it is still a brain. When you shine a light in someone eye and her pupil constricts, the brain is operating but the mind is not. So, I think of the mind as synonymous with thought. So, simple reflexes, though mediated by the brain do not involve the mind. I suppose that strict Skinnerians will have trouble with this as to them, the mind is just a fabricated concept. Everything is a matter of reflex. Fred.

0 Replies

@Rose phil,

Rose wrote:

Personally, I think the Mind instructs the Brain and the brain instructs the Body. The brain is a tool. I liken it to a computer - the quality of the information that comes out will depend on the quality of the information that was fed in.

Good view.

I'd liken the brain and mind relationship much like Light and a Light Bulb. The latter is the physical apparatus that makes possible the effect of the former. A good many dualists would disagree, but that's how I've always see it.

0 Replies

@Rose phil,

Rose;29412 wrote:

Personally, I think the Mind instructs the Brain and the brain instructs the Body. The brain is a tool. I liken it to a computer - the quality of the information that comes out will depend on the quality of the information that was fed in.

I agree. Even though atheists would say it's wrong, that all our thoughts and choices are determined by electrical signals caused by the brains. But I think it goes both ways, just like ghosts (spirits) can do things like turn off lights and to a little degree move light objects, so can a spirit tune in with the electrical signals of the brain, perceiving the senses and emotion the brain creates, as well as manipulating these patterns, thus influence the body, just like when it makes a lightbulb turn off in haunted houses. I therefore think we have free will (I also believe in destiny though, even though the two are often seen as paradoxes). And when you meditate or take magic mushrooms for example, a change in these energy patterns make the spirit more (though not wholely) disconnected, thus changing the perceptions, experiencing astral projection, gaining divine insights, etc.

1 Reply

@Stormalv,

Stormalv;29477 wrote:

I agree. Even though atheists would say it's wrong, that all our thoughts and choices are determined by electrical signals caused by the brains. But I think it goes both ways, just like ghosts (spirits) can do things like turn off lights and to a little degree move light objects, so can a spirit tune in with the electrical signals of the brain, perceiving the senses and emotion the brain creates, as well as manipulating these patterns, thus influence the body, just like when it makes a lightbulb turn off in haunted houses. I therefore think we have free will (I also believe in destiny though, even though the two are often seen as paradoxes). And when you meditate or take magic mushrooms for example, a change in these energy patterns make the spirit more (though not wholely) disconnected, thus changing the perceptions, experiencing astral projection, gaining divine insights, etc.

Our brain sorts and stores all our life experiences and calls on that hidden storehouse of knowledge when we need to deal with a particular situation. We learn to trust our instincts and intuition because, like the hidden storehouse of knowledge, they are a part of us.

Not sure I believe in a personal free will or destiny. I feel my unconscious mind directing and guiding me. I don't have to take that guidance but experience has shown me that I would be well advised to follow it. I came to trust my instincts and intuition and now follow that guidance knowing it comes from somewhere deep inside of me.

I don't know about spirit beyond my own life spirit of wonder and survival. When I meditate there is a shift in consciousness which allows me to experience things that I am unable to experience during the workings of a normal day. But I am aware of being much more mindful of the events of my day because of the meditation.

0 Replies

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday,

If one is to try and divide such things we need to know on what basis, it seems apparent to me, that the mind/brain is a secondary organ in serves to the body. Many people believe that consciousness is limited to the brain/mind but in fact the whole body is consciousness, so, again, what is going to be the rational for this attempted separation. I think the nature of life dictates that body/brain/mind are a relational network/system, and it is not in fact possiable to separate these things. The mind will do whatever the body instructs it to do, try directing your will without sensory input, the only time this would not be so, would be, if the brain/mind/body were diseased.

3 Replies

@boagie,

Hey Boagie, this caught my eye...

boagie wrote:

... Many people believe that consciousness is limited to the brain/mind but in fact the whole body is consciousness...

Would you mind clarifying this please? I'm curious...

Consciousness, in the way I take our context, is that element of self-awareness, that thinks, that dreams, that feels, that voluntarily directs our bodies and causes our hearts to beat and so on. The sub-consciousness would necessarily need a differentiation; though part of the whole concept of the mind (the mind consisting of both the conscious and subconscious).

I'd agree that our entire "system" is part of a whole integrated package, one and again like many of the other awesome species on this planet. But looking at the above, I'm wondering: Would you say that I am no longer a conscious being if I end up losing my legs in an accident tomorrow?

If you're saying they're part of an integrated whole; one affecting and working symbiotically with the other; yee haw. If you're saying that our consciousness isn't just in the mind - that it is also in our finger tips, appendix, radius bones and nose cartilage, then I'm curious how, or in what context?

Thanks

0 Replies

@boagie,

Khethil,

Well yes I will do my best to clarify, it is not a new understanding, the Upanishads deal with it somewhere, calling it I beleive the wisdom sheafs of the body. My own understaning is base on the idea that the brain/mind is a secondary organ in serves to the community of the body. It is apparent that one can still be alive with just the brain stem functioning, some organisms just have a bunch of ganglia, while still other organisms have no apparent brain whatsoever.

Just think of the things the body knows, knows what to do, digestion, the chemistry involved in digesting your meal, if you had to know it, you in all likelyhood would starve to death. The body is conscious, your skin is one large sensing organ. When something comes in contact with your body a message is sent to brain, and that message I believe is an instruction, at the very least information. No the mind did not create the body, the body created the mind, and it did so for the reason of pure utility. The fact the most of the population do not understand this, almost assures that they will violate their own natures.

Schopenhauer touches upon this, the body as consciousness and our loss of consciousness by degree as we grow older. The senses become duller, hearing, eyesight ect, how can one doubt that the dulling of the senses, or even their loss, is a loss of consciousness? At one point he even points out that as you age and lose the ability to run, this too, is a loss of consciousness.

If you lose sensory perception, is this not losing consciousness, it is a matter of degree, but that is what old age is, leaving by degree, consciousness is waning. Well, if it is necessary to clearify further I shall have to think about it some more. I hope I have made my point but it would not be the first time that I did not sucessfully done so.

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie;29516 wrote:

Holiday,

If one is to try and divide such things we need to know on what basis, it seems apparent to me, that the mind/brain is a secondary organ in serves to the body. Many people believe that consciousness is limited to the brain/mind but in fact the whole body is consciousness, so, again, what is going to be the rational for this attempted separation. I think the nature of life dictates that body/brain/mind are a relational network/system, and it is not in fact possiable to separate these things. The mind will do whatever the body instructs it to do, try directing your will without sensory input, the only time this would not be so, would be, if the brain/mind/body were diseased.

boagie,

If the body instructed the mind, then wouldn't someone with brain damage be able to instruct the brain/mind to perform regardless. I just can't see it. Sorry if I have misunderstood.

2 Replies

@Rose phil,

Rose,

Yes well, in cases of people who have lost the use of their limbs, it is now known that the body can teach the mind these new skills over again. I do not think years ago this was appreciated. If you just think for a moment, how could it be that the mind/brain creates the body, basic evolutionary biology shows biology starts with independent molecules, on to basic cells, we are a longtime getting to the multicellular organism, and this is the community of the body. It is also very well known that the brain evolved from the insideout, the frontal lobes our newest adaptation, our brain stem our oldest. No, there is no doubt, the body built the brain for strictly utilitarian purposes, perhaps what is truly at root is that selfish gene---what the Dawkins is going on?:devilish:

0 Replies

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

If you lose sensory perception, is this not losing consciousness, it is a matter of degree, but that is what old age is, leaving by degree, consciousness is waning. Well, if it is necessary to clearify further I shall have to think about it some more. I hope I have made my point but it would not be the first time that I did not sucessfully done so.

Also, to spread the pessimism, apparently the age at which your brain is at it's maximum speed (whatever that means, processing I guess) is 39 years old on average. But I have to disagree with you here Boagie. As much as the skin is an organ, it is not itself conscious. It contributes the input stimulation via instruction so as to make the brain undergo deterministic processing so as to develop a sense of a mind and awareness, but the skin itself cannot on its own be aware. Unless you define awareness as displacement of matter via excitation and stimulation. (which might work out ok)

What if the purpose of matter is chaos and the idea of consciousness is a feeble attempt at inhibiting the determinism, but is at a stage of just simple delusion in this moment of our evolution.

As much as I see matter provokes order, it must also have the element or equally proportional chaos to balance out the order so as to keep the element of indifference to the actuality of well... actuality.

is that what they mean by "deterministic chaos"?

1 Reply

@Holiday20310401,

Hi Hoilday, its been awhile! Smile

Well, the skin may be is self-aware, it could be argued in the affirmitive, but I'll by pass that. Lets discuss the function of the brain, this deterministic processing that you coined, I take it that this is the decision making process. Even if it were as you state in the above, and the body simply has input stimulation via instruction as you have term it. This is information, and unless you can honesty believe that the brain/mind proceed the existence of the body, then you must logically realize that the body lotted the brain its function. Your criteria for self-awareness is odd, a body that can create a highly functional brain, I would say is not only self-aware, but in charge.

"What if the purpose of matter is chaos and the idea of consciousness is a feeble attempt at inhibiting the determinism, but is at a stage of just simple delusion in this moment of our evolution." quote

The above just sounds like babble to me--sorry. Smile

"As much as I see matter provokes order, it must also have the element or equally proportional chaos to balance out the order so as to keep the element of indifference to the actuality of well... actuality." quote

I do not believe that matter provokes order, matter is order in motion, the rest of it, you may know what you mean I do not. Is this your recipe for indifference, order mixed with equal amounts of chaos?

"is that what they mean by "deterministic chaos"?[/quote]

Deterministic: An inevitable consequence of antecedent sufficient causes
Chaos: The formless and disordered state of matter before the creation of the cosmos------------you got me Hoilday. Very Happy

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Well, the skin may be is self-aware, it could be argued in the affirmitive, but I'll by pass that. Lets discuss the function of the brain, this deterministic processing that you coined, I take it that this is the decision making process. Even if it were as you state in the above, and the body simply has input stimulation via instruction as you have term it. This is information, and unless you can honesty believe that the brain/mind proceed the existence of the body, then you must logically realize that the body lotted the brain its function. Your criteria for self-awareness is odd, a body that can create a highly functional brain, I would say is not only self-aware, but in charge.

Oh yes, the body lots the brain, as we can see, in other organisms preceeding our species, there are those without brains. Heck, I'd argue some humans don't have brains either. Have you seen this Sarah Palin woman. Man..:nonooo:, dinosaurs and man coexisting... :nonooo:.... Laughing

. But yes, body lots brain... to lot body, because body got lazy to do all the evolving on its own without some intuitive hard drive for refering beyond DNA. But on a serious note, I'm not sure I follow you here. I think I could define self awareness as the ability to have established, an internal sensory system, though awareness is different of course.

boagie wrote:

The above just sounds like babble to me--sorry.

You're right. It was just a notion that maybe there'd be reasoning in evolution and somehow perhaps chaos is important for the mind to conceive.

boagie wrote:

I do not believe that matter provokes order, matter is order in motion, the rest of it, you may know what you mean I do not. Is this your recipe for indifference, order mixed with equal amounts of chaos?

Matter doesn't provoke anything, but what the mind conceives is important. As for the concoction for indifference, as long as its opposing duality, yes. What the mind sees as opposing duality should be seen in actuality as precise indifference.

1 Reply

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday,

Lets just take indifference, indifference is a human quality, I know the term is used often to refer to the conditon of nature, but it is not proper to nature, indifference infers a certain degree of awarness, one cannot be indifferent if one is not aware of the subject. Nature is unware of the necessity of your survival, nature cannot be indifferent, because nature is not conscious/is unaware of you.

1 Reply

@boagie,

Sorry, I suppose indifferent isn't the right word then. I mean balance, really. Just look at it that way.

1 Reply

@Rose phil,

Well, you can atleast be certain that consciousness exists, in some form or another... And like I said, I think mathematics is also certainly real, 1 + 2 for example can't be anything other than 3.

1 Reply

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Sorry, I suppose indifferent isn't the right word then. I mean balance, really. Just look at it that way.

Holiday,

You should pay more attention to the terminology that you use, you have a good mind, you would be understood more if you just took more time in considering the terms you use to express your ideas.

0 Replies

@Stormalv,

Stormalv,

I do not believe that the existence of consciousness is in question. What seem to be contested is which is ultimately in charge or running the show, the brain/mind or the community of the body. What is your slant on this problem?

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

What is your slant on this problem?

... why does it necessarily have to be the case that one is "in charge" of the other? Wink

...

2 Replies

The Mind will do exactly what the Brain has instructed

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know