Philosophy in School!

@clearthought,

God no!

School is tough enough as it is.

@socrato,

socrato wrote:

God no!

School is tough enough as it is.

Yeah I know eh! :rolleyes:

I mean, we learn so much, my brain, its riveting with questions, makes me feel like my head is going to explode or something. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Too much to take in!:rolleyes:

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@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Actually, where I live, we require a 3 month civics course in grade ten. It wasn't much though. In fact it was more of a laugh. Students didn't know who the prime minister was.:eek:

Everybody knew Bush though. :rolleyes:

And I agree that because the mindset is made early in the student's life that such social sciences and 'practical' courses should be taught early. Though I still have no clue what I want to do when I grow up.

I was in 9th grade about 15 years ago, so I am sure standards have changed quite a bit. My class covered all the different forms of government (growing up in the 80s of course communism was demonized), elections, the Constitution, citizen responsibility and all of those other fine things necessary to know as a functioning citizen of a country.

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@socrato,

socrato wrote:

God no!

School is tough enough as it is.

Have you thought that your poor preparation due to incompetent teachers may be the reason why you think school is tough enough?

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Have you thought that your poor preparation due to incompetent teachers may be the reason why you think school is tough enough?

Woah! :duke-it-out:

But seriously, I think Thea has a point here: How seriously students apply themselves often wanes badly, the end result is ultimately a young mind's dissatisfaction. Of course, there are many Failure Points in education...

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@Khethil,

There just isn't enough motivation in receiving a mark or grade for most students that is in any way positive for actually trying at the very hardest.

For me, I'm hoping that philosophy helps give me a broader picture of an assignment so I can find reason that interests me. But usually I will barely try at all or try very hard an more than ace the assignment.

Although grade eleven, apathy level = :beat-up:

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Have you thought that your poor preparation due to incompetent teachers may be the reason why you think school is tough enough?

What's your beef against teachers? If you want to attack the public education system at large, that's one thing, but a blanket statement against the educators themselves, that's another.

Yes, there are bad teachers, but there are also really good teachers. I've seen teachers, who I know for a fact are good, have multiple failing marks. Is it the teachers fault, no. If you want to start pointing fingers, perhaps you can start with the Government, or perhaps parents, or a particular schools administration, or even the students themselves.

You seem to have pretty strong opinions regarding education, do you work in the education system?

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@clearthought,

Not the matter, in its essence Clearthought. Teachers should be schooled in philosophy and its applications to direct thought. If we continue to simply pummel the minds of our children with baggage that is information, we will leave them with little room for consideration. Being forced to gather information isn't learning, they need to be taught how to discern the information for themselves from the begining. I believe the biggest mistake is , that every year we pass the children on to another, when it takes that time for a teacher to discover the quirks of their pupils. This information is lost on the following year and often when a student has just begun to exert thought in a recognised form that teacher is no longer there to encourage what was happening anymore.

There are simple ways that do not cost the department, to encourage intellect, interact ideas of science and general lessons of history, mathematics, language, while continuing to demand of the pupils their time and their imput. School the children to learn from the start and you will teach them anything you like as they age. More so anything they like.

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@Holiday20310401,

LOL i'm torn here....

I feel a little cliquish when it comes to philosophy and like the individuality I have that most people I know share nowhere the similar interest not even the philosophy students and don't want loads of people to come in.

But then I realise the positive and life-changing impact philosophy has had on me and feel if more people experienced that it could lead to great things. I think more schools should have the option to teach it at least

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@Holiday20310401,

Yeah I think that it would be good if we had philosophy lessons at school considering I am starting highschool this year, but I can't imagine any of the other students being to keen on it.

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@Holiday20310401,

Hmm, in most secondary schools (in Blighty anyway) Philosophy is half present in the form of Religious Education, which allows and encourages children to question the ideas that are supposedly set in stone. However this just mostly consisted of me and some friends pointing out sections of the Bible to the teacher and asking if we should follow them, such as the fact that a man should marry his brother's widowed wife if he wishes to be a good brother, and if he does not then she is to throw a shoe at him. Or perhaps there is the idea that it is okay to rape someone as long as their parents are paid some silver and the daughter is married to the rapist.

Anyway, I deviate. This wasn't real philosophy, though, as it just told students about the religions and their ideals. I couldn't wait to get to college where I could actually do some real philosophy and it would have been great for this to have been a choice at GCSE! Better than French anyway......

1 Reply

@Kolbe,

Kolbe wrote:

Hmm, in most secondary schools (in Blighty anyway) Philosophy is half present in the form of Religious Education, which allows and encourages children to question the ideas that are supposedly set in stone. However this just mostly consisted of me and some friends pointing out sections of the Bible to the teacher and asking if we should follow them, such as the fact that a man should marry his brother's widowed wife if he wishes to be a good brother, and if he does not then she is to throw a shoe at him. Or perhaps there is the idea that it is okay to rape someone as long as their parents are paid some silver and the daughter is married to the rapist.

Anyway, I deviate. This wasn't real philosophy, though, as it just told students about the religions and their ideals. I couldn't wait to get to college where I could actually do some real philosophy and it would have been great for this to have been a choice at GCSE! Better than French anyway......

I agree with the first and third, but the second one is you misunderstanding the bible. It is the old testament- and this section is effectivly a bit of social/cultural advice for the jewish people. And for the times rather good advice, as unmarried women could be very vunreable, and often had no way to support themselves.

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@Holiday20310401,

Perhaps, but the truth of the matter was it was hilarious at the time. Also, the Good News Bible (our edition) worded the homosexuality passage in Leviticus quite stangely. It said "And a man shall not lay with another man. God hates that." sounding as though he's kind of making it up as he's going along!

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@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Should there be philosophy courses in high school? Does it seem ethical? :confused:
Lets pretend that there would be enough students interested unless you think otherwise, like me.

Philosophy allows for intellect instead of the gathering of knowledge which I see students lacking. All I hear my classmates talking about is a reflection of the MSN conversation they had yesterday, or that game that just came out on xbox. So I believe that innovative advancement could potentially slow down. English class, to me isn't really good enough. It deals more with formal logic which always ends up dealing with books that have been analysed for the past 100 years anyways. We need debates and informal reasoning, its much more fun than memorizing formulas or reading books that I could read on my own time at home.
Highschool is an opportunity for teens to be all together in a classroom, there isn't any other place where that happens, so why no take the opportunity for us to argue our opinions and gain eachother's insight while coalesced.
Does philosophy class seem ethical to you?

i don't think schools really want to teach it, in my opinion its because they rather teach them subjects then to think for themselves.
also its kinda hard to "grade" people on it and could hit some touchy subjects with concerning parents.
that's just my quick 5 cents though

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@Holiday20310401,

My philosophy classes in high school were so boring...no one wanted to put attantion to anything...everybody in the room wait this class for taking a long sleep.

Who is the guilt??
Maybe the teacher... Cause now philosophy has become a boring tool for thinking...
The change that students do not ask but they want and need is a diferent way for learning... And others forms for teaching...

Talk and discuse of your life and reality is how u could apreciatte this matter.

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@comdavid,

Yes I completely agree. The philosophy class at the catholic high school is online! That really defies the point. I stand by what many people have said to me, that high school is not an opportunity for academics (except the financial incentives, whatever), its meant for social interaction. So why not take advantage of that in the learning process?

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@Holiday20310401,

I just graduated from a highschool that had a philosophy class. I was not interested in philosophy so I didn't take it. I wish I had now since my interests have changed. Though I did know some people who took the class. One kid who took it merely because he wanted to debate with the teacher. This kid really doesn't have respect for authority. He is very bright though and has argued with many teachers about all kinds of random stuff through the years I've known him.

He took the class and hated it. They didn't have any discussions at all. The teacher would ask questions but you pretty much couldn't answer orally. It was pretty much all written. He would lecture, you would listen, you would learn. It was very basic and touched ever so lightly on a few things related to philosophy and history of philosophy as well but thats it.

A high school, if they are wise, is not going to have a class that is going to encourage debate between students. It would get out of hand. Obviously you would have students disagree, things would escalate, teacher would either have to break things up or you'd have a physical fight. So they choose not to allow it. Works for me.

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@click here,

Us students from my experience, have nothing to say. You get the few in each class who actually read, and then there is some discussion. And then you get the rest of the classmates thinking they're progressing the class by sharing chatty anecdotes that are almost irrelevant. But usually they won't say anything.

Physical fights... I doubt it. If so then that'd be pretty sad. Usually, and I have to say there has been one exception, teachers will not openly, constructively criticize a student if they are completely wrong. I think it'd be wise to have a course on constructive criticism.

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@Holiday20310401,

i've been studying in a italian high school for 2 years and our philosophy classes are as simple as they can be. so as long as it is like our lessons, i think it is okay.
but i'm afraid understanding more about life makes life harder because how stupid you are, easy it gets for you to survive.

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@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Us students from my experience, have nothing to say. You get the few in each class who actually read, and then there is some discussion. And then you get the rest of the classmates thinking they're progressing the class by sharing chatty anecdotes that are almost irrelevant. But usually they won't say anything.

Physical fights... I doubt it. If so then that'd be pretty sad. Usually, and I have to say there has been one exception, teachers will not openly, constructively criticize a student if they are completely wrong. I think it'd be wise to have a course on constructive criticism.

Well you'd have to come to my school to find out for yourself about the fights. There are a lot of unintelligent opinionated people out there.

Also at my school there were teachers who would down right say you are wrong. I had one teacher say things like "Shut up and sit down your an idiot". I'm not even kidding. I had him for a teacher one year. I had also heard of other teachers like that at school though never had them. My teacher wouldn't mind cursing at you etc...

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