Why Philosophy?

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My dad sees philosophy as a complete waste of time, and metaphysics, and all of ethics. He wants me to get off this forum because he thinks it has no cause. I see philosophy as something interesting to do, I like to think about abstract concepts and gain wisdom. That's why I at least try it. He says, "theres no blatant purpose. All it is is asking useless questions. There is no future in it. I want you to get a well paying job and philosophy is not the way to go about it". He's really actually scared now because this really is the first time I've shown initiative to something academic.
So my question is, why learn philosophy? I need arguments to keep me allowed on this forum. Everything I've said isn't tangible to him.

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@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

My dad sees philosophy as a complete waste of time, and metaphysics, and all of ethics. He wants me to get off this forum because he thinks it has no cause. I see philosophy as something interesting to do, I like to think about abstract concepts and gain wisdom. That's why I at least try it. He says, "theres no blatant purpose. All it is is asking useless questions. There is no future in it. I want you to get a well paying job and philosophy is not the way to go about it". He's really actually scared now because this really is the first time I've shown initiative to something academic.
So my question is, why learn philosophy? I need arguments to keep me allowed on this forum. Everything I've said isn't tangible to him.

Holiday,

:)That is a real father thing, be glad your old man is concerned enough to protest. In my opinion he is a least partly right, it is something you should be worried about, making a decent living once you leave your father home is important, BIG TIME!! Perhaps you could get involve in something which seems likely to teach you somethng marketable--that might help! Also if you told him philosophy is a way to keep the wheels turning, that when he is a little older he should consider it himself. In ones senior years something like this could ward off dementia. It is however dangerous to give advice, sometimes it can be quite damaging. So whatever you decide, practise, examine it to make sure it does not offend and it is not disrespectful, practise it again, then talk to your father about it. Good Luck!!

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Holiday,

:)That is a real father thing, be glad your old man is concerned enough to protest. In my opinion he is a least partly right, it is something you should be worried about, making a decent living once you leave your father home is important, BIG TIME!! Perhaps you could get involve in something which seems likely to teach you somethng marketable--that might help! Also if you told him philosophy is a way to keep the wheels turning, that when he is a little older he should consider it himself. In ones senior years something like this could ward off dementia. It is however dangerous to give advice, sometimes it can be quite damaging. So whatever you decide, reh****, examine it to make sure it does not offend, reh**** it again, then talk to your father about it. Good Luck!!

Yeah all I really say are the pros of philosophy. And I do not plan to get a job in philosophy, it is to me something of a past time sort of thing. I just want to explain how philosophy is important and not useless. It shouldn't denounce somebody if they enjoy it.

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@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Yeah all I really say are the pros of philosophy. And I do not plan to get a job in philosophy, it is to me something of a past time sort of thing. I just want to explain how philosophy is important and not useless. It shouldn't denounce somebody if they enjoy it.

Holiday,

Your reason is an excellent one, tell him even if you are a working man you would still like to have an intellectual life. There are a number of kinds of poverty, the one most people seem to worry most about is financial, another is emotional poverty, spiritual poverty and intellectual poverty, ideally you would not like to be poor in any of the above catagories. Sometimes, if you are born into a working class family as I was, there just is little to no intellectual life. Perhaps the people that surround you are of a like nature, that makes for a difficult time. If you wish an intellectual life, know that your context tends to define you, you must, if this is something you want for yourself, be aware, and so guarded, about letting your context define you.-------hope it is of some help!!

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@Holiday20310401,

Looks like your father is expressing his own philosophy in regards to discussing philosophy. The working man, the burger flipper, the doctor, the lawyer and everyone else in this entire world has a philosophy including your father. Discussing philosophy with others is a great thing because in our physical world we don't have enough people around us who care to discuss philosophy. They'd rather discuss BS.

As you go through life you will develop your own philosophy which you will carry with you through your job and throughout your entire life. It's your philosophy that will shine through in all that you do and your philosophy that will give you purpose and understanding. It's an attribute to desire to understand more.

My parents don't like my discussing philosophy either. They'd rather me discuss how Jesus saves and show up at church on Sunday and believe in what they believe. However, there are those that can walk through life never questioning reality and truth and just go along with the flow and then there are those that desire more and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Keep it up. The seed of desire is within you and that's a great thing. So next time your father says something like that, ask him if that's his philosophy on it? Maybe you could ask him what his own philosophy is on getting a good job or building a career. He also has a philosophy but maybe he calls it something different.

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@Holiday20310401,

I'm very much afraid Justin that your Dad is right. Philosophy in the real world is pointless. You go to the academic philosophers and they act abstract question that has been ask over and over again, answered over and over again, commented over and over again. You can read billion of pages of treatises and it will amount to the same original question.
How about street philosophy? the philosophy of the masses, about lifeview? Well your dad must have this too... Action and Praxis, lifeview, intentions, actions. Ideas + Work. One can not act with out a set of moral view. How to view the world? If its all about money, you can just rob a bank to gain some. If its about sex, then go rape some. If its about power, go play online (hehehe). But we don't act in that way (at least the majority of we) . Tell our dad why? I don't think anybody can call that question pointless. Plato ask that same question in his Republic.

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@midas77,

midas77;15642 wrote:

I'm very much afraid Justin that your Dad is right. Philosophy in the real world is pointless.

Would you give the same advice on your deathbed? Would you tell the future generations to focus on what we currently consider to be important?

1 Reply

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday

Philosophy is important in one way, but in other ways it's useless. Philosophy is discussing your ideas and perspectives with other people, hopefully reaching something that's a universal truth although in 99 out of 100 cases we get nowhere. Philosophy is the action of questioning something around you or within you to reach some kind of knowledge about what ever the subject might be, that's why it's important for us.

But on the other hand, to know why things are the way they are doesn't change them, they are still the way they are. So yes, it's kind of useless if you don't value knowledge as something worth persuiting. For me personally, I don't know any other way besides philosophy, I can't imagien myself not wanting to know why things are the why they are. Teachers have hated me for questioning every little thing in their class (like in early math classes I asked why Pi where ~3.14 and how they came to that number, the teacher couldn't tell me and got annoyed with me because of it).

I don't know how you can explain to your father why you want to do it as it's a personal reason. But if it where me, I would ask him when he stoped questioning things around him and why, because nomather how you look at it, you should always question everything.

Hope I helped a little atleast!

1 Reply

@Wizzy,

The study of philosophy is far from pointless; far from worthless - even in practical form.

Of what worth is, through study, understanding yourself and forming a perspective of all questions big and small? I sense that the critisisms here seem to center around some of the more ambiguous and lofty questions philosphy can conjure. But what of ethics? What of the appreciation of beauty? Who here can deny the absolute and practical worth of having a clear understanding of how knowledge is gained? My gosh...

Studying many of the five branches of philosphy gently changes the focus of the mind towards a more focused approach to life; decision making is sharpened, critical thinking is empowered, appreciation of what one has deemed right and wrong is enriched. Holy tamales...

I think it beyond questioning that only the most unenlightened person whose skimmed barely the basics of philosophy would see it as pointless. It is the way we empower our minds - how can this *not* lead to a fuller, more successful life? In every thread of thought, every question we answer (big and small) it makes its way.

No, it's not pointless - not by any definition.

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@Khethil,

No need for me to restate the defenses of philosophy.

But I will say your father is probably right about metaphysics.

2 Replies

@Didymos Thomas,

After reading all the comments, one thing that I'd like to add is that this Philosophy Forum is much more than a place to argue about philosophical issues. Whether we're talking about metaphysics or religion it doesn't matter because several other things are taking place. Here is a quick list:

Intellectual Exchange - This forum is designed to promote intellectual exchange of ideas facts. This is healthy for the mind and the growth of the inner-self.
Learning - When active on a forum such as this one, we are in the process of learning and getting new ideas and refining some of our old ones. We're learning and feeding that desire to learn.
Making Friends - Socially, the forum is about making friends and sharing ideas amongst friends. A member will develop lifelong contacts and relationships through regular forum usage.
Being a Member of a Community - No matter the size, it's always nice to be a member of a community and share the benefits of membership.
Business Contacts - No matter what business you are in, being a regular member in a forum will allow members to establish business relationships that create win win scenarios. Business is all about relationships.
Getting Questions Answered - Forums provide a place to get questions answered. If you have a specific question about what college to attend or if the time is right to get married?... Doesn't matter, you ask and someone and often times many people will respond.
Online Reputation - A regular user in the forums, you are building an online reputation with not only the users but the people who read the forums without membership. Your reputation will follow you wherever you go.
Contributing to Others - What you say in the forum is contributing your thoughts and ideas into the open Internet and can directly contribute to others.
Information Resource - The Philosophy Forum is becoming and information resource and many of the threads are very informational from History to science.
Influencing Evolution - As a member here at PhilosophyForum.com you can actually influence the evolution of the forum and it grows as you grow. It can nice to be a part of something that grows with your influence.
Improves Typing Skills - There is no better way to improve your typing skills aside from writing an entire book. Active forum members literally improve their typing skills and muscle memory. The ability to type is of great benefit today and tomorrow in technology and could help with getting the right job. Also improves formatting skills for effective writing.

There are many benefits to being an active member in a forum, the big question is, which type of forum and how many. There are forums for everything you can imagine and if you are online, you'll eventually become a member of many of them. You'll find great use from many of them... but you'll only call one or maybe two, 'Home'.

A 'Home' forum is where you are at daily to read posts, respond, check the latest happenings and usually a forum where the conversation is the most comfortable. The discussions in the Philosophy Forum tend to be civil and educational on almost any topic you can imagine so it's a place we want people to be able to call home.

So there we have it. Anyone have any benefits of forum usage to add to this?

1 Reply

@Justin,

Quote:

So there we have it. Anyone have any benefits of forum usage to add to this?

Another chance to practice typing? :p

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

another benefit is gaining that whole "these aren't the droids your looking for" skill.

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@as0l0,

I gave two kinds of philosophy in my reply to Justin. Speculative Philosophy and practical philosophy. Speculative philosophy is useless, by the very definition because it is an end in itself. Moral Philosophy is useful, what i'm saying is, not all people need to study metaphysics as we study it in formal philosophy, but one can never escape dealing with moral philosophy. It is what makes us human.

1 Reply

@midas77,

My mother also has the same view on philosophy. She sees it as a fruitless endeavour that has no real place in the world.
I had a lengthy discussion with her last week, and explained to her that philosophy is a search for knowledge and that the forum here is a method of obtaining that.
She relaxed a bit after that, but I still don`t expect to see her posting in thiss lifetime.

1 Reply

@Aristoddler,

I have the same experience Aristoddler. There was a story about Thales about this. "Thales fell on a well while he was studying the stars. A thracian girl show her and laugh saying that Thales was so busy studying the sky that he forgot to see the ground." Thales dared the girl that what he was doing is not that useless. By studying the stars Thales know that there will be surplus of Olives next harvest, so he dicided to lease all available Olive presses. Turns out that he was right, and he reap a nice profit.

I like philosophy even though its of no use as a trade, because it is worthy in itself. It is an end in itself. And in the end, it is really that which matters, but I need other form sof studies also, but as a lover of wisdom, I try to leave that to other professionals. They have their place too.

1 Reply

@midas77,

I've never been able to see philosophy as an end in itself. Instead, I've imagined that philosophy should be that which informs all of our means and all of our ends. Isn't that the whole idea of wisdom?

2 Replies

@Didymos Thomas,

Didy, in a way you're right. The end itself is wisdom, and philosophy is by the meaning of the term itself is the love or the quest for wisdom. However philosophy as a science, remains to be speculative and not practical in most part. Philosophy is an end in itself is considered to be paramount in Aristotlean Philosophy.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

I've never been able to see philosophy as an end in itself. Instead, I've imagined that philosophy should be that which informs all of our means and all of our ends. Isn't that the whole idea of wisdom?

I must emphasize the importance of this statement. I believe it to be very important; even the Bread and Butter of the "why" in philosophy.

I believe that many of us don't see philosophical inquiry as practically worthwhile because there is often a failure to understand its effects on the mind, perspective, methods of thought and how those improvements help us in our everyday life.

It is grossly oversimplistic to say there's no practical benefit. Even the most obscure, lofty metaphysical discussions - when earnestly debated - have real and practical benefits to our interactions, perspective and thought processes, and ultimately, end up affecting each and every action we take.

1 Reply

@Khethil,

Quote:

Didy, in a way you're right. The end itself is wisdom, and philosophy is by the meaning of the term itself is the love or the quest for wisdom. However philosophy as a science, remains to be speculative and not practical in most part. Philosophy is an end in itself is considered to be paramount in Aristotlean Philosophy.

But wisdom is not a science, and loving wisdom, or anything else, certainly is no science.

I agree that much of philosophy is speculative and of no practical value - metaphysics seems to depend on this sort of literature. Of course, I also consider the far flung metaphysics to be unwise - brilliant men striving to organize reality. In the process, they destroy reality; they pin themselves in to a certain language.

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