Corporeal Disposition

Does anybody here remember "Soylent Green"?

Does anybody here remember "Soylent Green"?

Just wondering, o Enthusiastic Poltroon, isn't there a proportional relationship between 'enthusiasm' and 'depth of poltroonism'? The > the poltroonism the > the enthusiasm? *__-

I'm wondering how others feel about this. When I express how I feel on this issue, I often get strange looks and odd reactions. So I'm wondering how what other's take is: [INDENT] When the body dies, the idea of pumping it full of chemicals, dressing it up nicely and placing it in an expensive container on a plot of land strikes me as grossly egotistical, wasteful and just flat-out absurd. The bio-matter in my body came from this earth, it should be allowed to freely return in the manner in which nature's always done. Assuming that one doesn't want to pass their remains on to the betterment of science or donation, one should be placed naked in a grave and left alone - no strings attached.
[/INDENT]I acknowledge the desire of the living to "say goodbye" to the deceased. But death of the body has been perverted by ego; a sick need to make the corpse appear sanitary, serene and spiffed-up. In this way, we've perverted perceptions on the nature of death to suit our "disconnected from nature", "above the natural" mindset (a mindset that I see as destructive and self-defeating). Death is just as much a part of our life-cycle as birth and there is real utility in striving to keep connected to life's natural cycle.

Am I alone in this?

Thanks in advance

Hi Khethil. I always enjoy your posts.

If you acknowledge the desire of the living to say goodbye, then why do you seem to pass over the valuable emotional utilily that these practices have for the living?

So you don't seem to care what happens to your body after you're dead...

... great, but what if being embalmed, dressed up, put into a nice coffin, and being given a "proper" burial is what would make those that you've left behind feel better, and more able to move on with their lives after it's done? Well, in my experience this seems to be the case. As Didymos noted "funerals are for the living". Do you begrudge them this point? Will you insist in your will that you not be given a "proper" burial in spite of the emotional impact this may have on your loved ones?

I also think that going through a lot of trouble to bury somebody can be seen as the biggest showing of respect a person can be given. Talk about non-reciprocal altruism...

"I'm doing this for you and your memory even though I know full well that you are unable to repay me for it."

Regardless or your beliefs on dualism, I think most humans do associate other human's bodies with them as people. It's more than "just a shell", but the image of how you will always remember that person in your mind, so I think it makes sense to want to treat the bodies of the dead with respect, even if to a degree it is only symbolically.

... when an exorbitant amount of money is spent on the process that becomes prohibitive to the needs of the living. Then, I do think that things can get a little ridiculous, and unfortunately often do, for reasons that I assume often have to do with capitalism...

... most people don't care that much what happens to their body once their dead, and all the funeral proceedings really do turn out to be more for the living than for the dead.

An excellent point! I don't see funeral/burial practices as completely void of emotional utility. My take on that is this: While embalming, prepping (pretty-ing) and waving goodbye to the visible body does give some sense of closure. In my opinion, the good that these give can't equal the damage it does (in terms of (1) the warped sense of the process of death (hard to quantify), (2) waste of resources (very quantifiable), (3) not allowing the decomposition process to proceed in a direct/natural way (admittedly whimsical, don't shoot me!) and (4) the irksome result of feeding a bloated and grossly overpriced industry. I accept that many of us feel this is all worth it; and that's fine. It just rubs me wrong

Sidenote: Although I didn't really delineat this. I do care. My desires are to: First have all donatable organs distributed; Secondly, donate what remains to any resource repositories in need of human tissue -and- Finally, toss what's left in a hole somewhere. Not that this has any real bearing on what you've brought up (but I do so like expressing those decisions I'm proud of <beam>)

All good points:

• Conceded: Yes I agree such rituals do help the living (see above); but again, I don't think what's gained is worth the payoff and loss in other areas.[1]
  

• Naw, I don't begrudge folks for wanting this. At the risk of being holier-than-thou, I believe that if we were more enlightened, practical and closer to the nature of moral human existence, we'd place more value in the practical aspects.[2]
  

• Regarding the Emotional Impact of my "Practical" Solution: Is it better we dress up and pretty the process or perhaps could it be that it's better - emotionally - that we accept death for what it is? [3] While I've conceded there is emotional benefit in these rituals, who's to say that once we've shed these practices; emotionally, we wouldn't be better off. I can't immediately quantify this, but I think it deserves pondering.
  

Altrustic to give to a dead person? That's not them... it's a body. [INDENT]Now if one believes the Spirit and Body are separate, it's likely that spirit has "moved on" - so we're not giving to the deceased.
[/INDENT][INDENT]If, on the other hand, we believe the consciousness is contained within the body's tissue then that consciousness (that "person") is also no longer functioning in that body; in which case, again we're not "giving" to the person.
[/INDENT]I'm not sure the idea that burial rituals = altrustic-giving stands to reason regardless of metaphysical/theological view[4]. Is it altruistic to give to a side of beef, broken bicycle or chuck of concrete?

Although I reject the idea that burial = altruism to the dead. I agree on the subtle benefit this sentiment. That comes from a good place and a giving heart (regardless of the brutal reality of the situation).

Nice point. I don't think it mitigates or dismisses anything I've said, but I like it. And if I can play my own devil's advocate (just cuz I'm flaky like that), one might even posit that showing respect to a perceived person helps has the collateral benefit of shoring-up respect for those living. Nice twist

Yep, definately with you there. Within a culture whose god-in-practice is the almighty buck (read: Capitalism Run Amuck) we'll sell anything, make a profit off anyone and insert enough levels of middlemen to make even the most greedy go cross-eyed. Yep, we'll even sell you your corpse back! Ugh... so embarassing... may I go sit in the corner now?

Yea, true enough. Based on my perspective, my values and that which I see as best I say: It's not worth it! If I step back a bit and acknowledge benefits I can understand - but don't agree with, I say: Feeling good is good enough; if that makes you happy and helps you deal with this pain then by all means, proceed with my blessing.

Thanks again for a well-considered and coherent response!

Diogenes (Greek philosopher) said that after he dies, "just throw my body outside the city walls." Some people warned him that wild animals would surely devour his carcuss. "Then give me a stick to beat them back with!" I guess what happens to the dead, in many ways, is for the satisfaction of the living.

In the U.S., the average funeral costs about $ 7,000.00

After death, eye sockets tend to "sink"; therefore, in open-casket arrangements clear, barbed, plastic "eyelids" are inserted. The dome-shape keeps the eyelid shape while the barbs catch the inside of the eyelids and keep them closed

I have to say I'm a little appalled that you don't think altruism to a side of beef is warranted but I'm willing to look past that for the sake of discussion. The act of altruism to the dead, like the funeral, isn't really for the deceased, but the living. (in my view anyway) It's a way for us to feel like good, respectul people. It's a way for us to show others how much we care about our loved ones.